Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 19:25:37 +0000 From: "Frank Pawlak" <fpawlak@execpc.com> To: jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com, Eivind Eklund <eivind@yes.no>, Wes Peters <wes@softweyr.com>, jcwells@u.washington.edu Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Does it's true? Message-ID: <980628192537.ZM109@darkstar.connect.com> In-Reply-To: Josef Grosch <jgrosch@superior.mooseriver.com> "Re: Does it's true?" (Jun 28, 8:35am) References: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980627093956.501A-100000@s8-37-26.student.washington.edu> <199806272108.PAA20565@softweyr.com> <19980628170008.43362@follo.net> <19980628083505.A6268@mooseriver.com>
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On Jun 28, 8:35am, Josef Grosch wrote: > Subject: Re: Does it's true? > On Sun, Jun 28, 1998 at 05:00:08PM +0200, Eivind Eklund wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 27, 1998 at 03:08:31PM -0600, Wes Peters wrote: > > > We also reserve the right to kill anyone who attempts to bring down > > > the lawful government of the United States, either from within or > > > from outside threat. This is not considered "murder" here, nor in > > > any other country I know of -- yours included, Eivind. > > I have always been fascinated by this attitude. 200 years ago, Thomas > Jefferson, George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, et al. overthrew the > "lawful government" of these British colonies. Because they won, they are > called "patriots" and "Founding Fathers". Had they lost, they would have > been executed for treason, read state sanctioned murder, and called > traitors. > > "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created > equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable > Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of > Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted > among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the > governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of > these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, > and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such > principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall > seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness." > > - Declaration of Independence > > > Josef > Very well put and of course true. It all depends upon who's ox is being gored. It would be even better if We The People actually lived up to this. In addition foreigners do not as a rule see the US or Americans as we like to see ourselves. They are more than well aware of how we as a nation go about sticking our noses in other countries business, pointing flaws in their civil rights methods, while the hypocrisy goes on here in the US. We are not often times viewed as THE model of democracy that we'd like to thing we are, but rather as pushy, verbose bastards, whose actions are confusing to people of other nations. We have some closets here that need cleaning before we tout our shinning image to the rest of the world. I sense that is what Eivind is saying: clean up your act first than talk to the rest of the world about how things should be. But, he doesn't need me to put words in his mouth. IMHO, he is quite capable of taking care of himself. Frank > -- > Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 2.2.7 > jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message >-- End of excerpt from Josef Grosch To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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