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Date:      Thu, 12 Sep 2002 13:15:09 -0700
From:      Dave Hayes <dave@jetcafe.org>
To:        Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com>
Cc:        "Neal E. Westfall" <nwestfal@directvinternet.com>, Giorgos Keramidas <keramida@ceid.upatras.gr>, Joshua Lee <yid@softhome.net>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Why did evolution fail? 
Message-ID:  <200209122015.g8CKFE159747@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org>

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Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com> writes:
> Dave Hayes wrote:
>> > I justify it by the fact that light bulbs are *observed* to work.
>> 
>> I thought "observation" was an inaccurate methodology in the Terry
>> Lambert mindview?
>
> This shows the inaccuracy of your model of me, doesn't it?  

That, or it shows that you will shift your words when it is convienent
for you. ;)

> It's you who is the phenomenologist.

Great. More labels. 

>> > By "extropy", we are talking about a local increase in order.
>> > AKA "life".
>> 
>> I bet you can't prove that life is an increase in order. Any
>> poor urban area is disproof by observation. ;)
>
> Life is a local increase in order, by definition.

I don't know about that, I've seen the floor of a stock exchange or 
a busy park with lots of kids. That doesn't look like order to me. 

>> > I can change a rational person's views, as a rational person
>> > can change mine.  All they need to do is argue from the basis
>> > of logic.  I've had my opinions chnaged many, many times in
>> > the past, by people arguing rationally.
>> 
>> ...using your particular arbitrary set of presumptions as
>> axioms. ;)
>
> Don't worry; my presumtions are a subset of nearly everyone's.

Never mind that verifying this is close to impossible, would you
like to tell me just how you learned everyone's presumptions without
first making a bunch of your own? ;)

> It makes me incredibly tolerant, 

This is wrong by observation. You aren't tolerant of trolls. A
truly incredible tolerant person would be. QED. |)

> and much easier to convince by way of logical argument.

Oh I doubt that highly. 

> If my axioms are a subset of yours, then there's nothing about
> them that any person can successfully call arbitrary, without
> calling their own arbitrary.

Everything is arbitrary. =)

> Even if, like you, you pretend to irrationality to try and expand
> the set of allowable behaviours as a governance of our own internal
> rules.

I don't pretend to it. I know it, and it's inverse. I use whichever
one is appropriate at the time. 
------
Dave Hayes - Consultant - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org 
>>> The opinions expressed above are entirely my own <<<

Supporter (n.) - 1. Someone who will say anything.




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