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Date:      Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:05:27 -0400
From:      "Lanny Baron" <lnb@cybertouch.org>
To:        Jonathan Lemon <jlemon@americantv.com>, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG, mavery@mail.otherwhen.com
Cc:        Princess Noemie <nbuzaglo@mrs.com>
Subject:   Re: FreeBSD Certification...again
Message-ID:  <199907130404.AAA93660@freedom.cybertouch.org>
In-Reply-To: <199907130227.VAA23721@hostigos.otherwhen.com>
References:  <199907130150.UAA08668@free.pcs>

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Hello all,
It is evident that certification is getting more attention. But then as 
one who wrote below says, that in many cases it's a joke. True. I 
will agree. Just knowing enough to pass some tests that "get you 
by the exams" is not enough. When I talked to ms people at 
microsoft they told me that they are changing the test questions to 
make it more adept (is that the right word?) to a person truly 
knowing what he/she is doing with NT and networking.

While writing this mail, I am looking at a printout of a Sun course 
being offered at Learnix. I will quote the "Program Details" to show 
what I thing the pros at FreeBSD can make 10000% better.
"The Sun Certified Administrator Program for Solaris ^tm 7 is 
comprised fo two examinations: Part 1 exam will be available on 
April 30, 1999 and Part II exam will be available on June 11, 1999. 
You are given 90 minuets to complete the 72 multiple-choice and 
short answer type questions asked on each exam.  To pass Part I 
you must score at least 75%, Part II only requires a score of 70% 
or better to pass. The fee for writing each exam is $150."

I would hope/think that FreeBSD, as its system is great (but hard 
as hell to learn), could make it that one must "prove" their 
knowledge. Make them set up a network, from scratch. Then ask 
questions. 

I know you geniuses (i am not being sarcastic when i say that) of 
FreeBSD can make this happen. 

Lanny
 
> On 12 Jul 99, at 20:50, Jonathan Lemon wrote:
> 
> >On 13 Jul 99, at 8:32, Sue Blake wrote: 
> 
> >> On Mon, Jul 12, 1999 at 06:01:46PM -0400, Lanny Baron wrote:
> 
> > > > > It appears you are making a joke of it. FreeBSD could come up
> > > > > with programs for different areas of proficiency. Each with its
> > > > > own certification. It may not go far right away, but down
> > > > > the road, as with most good products, it would succeed.  
> 
> > > > And who will pay for this to be developed? 
> 
> > > It kinda depends.... if all we want is certification, it's cheap
> > > and easy.  If we want it to *MEAN SOMETHING*, then it'll be
> > > harder. 
> 
> > > Still, the training courses and testing are two different aspects.
> > > I suspect generating the tests would be fairly easy..... and the
> > > questions on them can be validated in a few hundred test cycles so
> > > a short, valid, test could be administered.... 
>  
> > *cough* *cough*
>  
> > You've never done this before, have you?  
> 
> Well, I used to be a teacher... and I have had experience with 
> generating and validating tests.
> 
> > Generating and validating the test is the _hard_ part.  Calculating
> > the reliability and validity of the test, using factor analysis to
> > weed out the useless questions, and insure that scores wind up with
> > a normal distribution takes a while. 
>  
> > I asked a professional (my wife, actually, :-), and she said that
> > it would take a minimum of a year to develop a reliable test.  The
> > curriculum is the easy part.
> 
> Ahhhh.... yeah.  It's always easy to say your part is the hard part and 
> the other guys is the easy part.  Generating a curriculum is not easy.  
> If it is intended to work, challenge all the students, without putting 
> those at the far ends of the bell curve into a coma.
> 
> Workshops are easy... courses and curricula are a lot harder.
> 
> Once a test has been created, determining which questions are 
> discrimators is pretty easy.  Determining WHAT they discriminate 
> can be hard.
> 
> Like I said, if we don't care about validity, it's easy.  If we want it 
> to *MEAN SOMETHING* then it gets a lot harder.
> 
> > As to different areas of proficiency, you're absolutely right.  There
> > wouldn't be "one" test, but different tests based on what skillsets you
> > were looking for, and what the goal of the test was.
>  
> > Yes, I was half kicking around the idea of seriously doing this.  However,
> > 1) the test would not be free, and 2) I wonder whether there really is a
> > market for this or not.
> 
> It's a chicken or the egg problem.  Has FreeBSD reached a critical 
> mass where it seems to matter to employers whether or not people 
> are certified for FreeBSD?
> 
> What differences would you expect to see in a FreeBSD certified 
> person and a Certified Unix Admin?  (Sorry, can't remember the 
> names of the group that handles that certification right now....)
> 
> Mike
> 
> ======================================================================
> Mike Avery                            MAvery@mail.otherwhen.com
>                                           (409)-842-2942 (work)
>                                                   ICQ: 16241692
> 
> * Spam is for lusers who can't get business any other way *
> 
> A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day:
> A bad joke is a parody error...
> 
> 
> 
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