Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:03:44 -0700 From: Dave Hayes <dave@jetcafe.org> To: Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com> Cc: Joshua Lee <yid@softhome.net>, nwestfal@directvinternet.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why did evolution fail? Message-ID: <200209130103.g8D13n162137@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org>
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Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com> writes:
> Dave Hayes wrote:
>> > No, you are a Luddite if you suggest elevation of individual
>> > rights over those of the group, to a point which would result
>> > in the desctruction of the group AND the group whose destruction
>> > is under discussion is one which promotes technological change.
> [ ... ]
>> BTW, I'm not suggesting nor have I ever suggested anything about
>> individual vs group rights. Those aren't really the issue here on a
>> mailing list.
>
> They are, in fact, the ONLY issues.
Hardly. We will have to agree to disagree with that one.
> The mailing list exists to serve the group. That is its purpose.
I disagree. The mailing list exists to enable communication between
parties interested in the topic that the list serves. "Serving the
group" implies it does or can do more than this.
>> The real issue, which you dodge daily, is the maturity
>> level it takes to ignore something you don't like. You won't address
>> this because it is in the realm of emotion, psychology, and
>> spirituality...fields with which you are most empirically unfamiliar
>> with despite your assertions that these can be reduced to simple
>> mathematical problems.
>
> I have responseded to a single troll message.
This goes directly counter to what I suggested. Ok.
> I did so to belittle the troll. I did this as a means of
> demonstrating to the group that I in fact did not support the
> statements of the troll.
But by responding, you gave the troll a small percentage of your time,
and you implicitly acknolwedge the troll's existance, granting that
troll beingness for the duration of your response. This is not
"ignoring the troll". ;)
> Further, I did it in a way that acknowledged only the existance of
> the posting itself, rather than acknowledging the content which the
> troll wished me to acknowledge.
Regardless, you still gave some acknowledgement of existence. This
only incentivizes the troll further.
> I have, further, repeatedly responded to your argument about the
> "maturity level it takes to ignore something you don't like". I
> have done so by pointing out that I prefer the participation of
> immature, by your definition of "mature", contributors to the
> participation of trolls.
At last. We see that it is your "preference" and not some "moral
imperative" or "deduced axiom of behaivor".
> You have repeatedly pointed out that you do not value participation
> of people who do not meet your criterion for "maturity".
Yes, this is my preference.
> I have pointed out that it does not *matter* to the community
> what you, personally, value, what matters to the community is
> what the *community* values.
This all brings back the very first posting I made:
> To see trolls as a bad thing is to ignore what brings communities
> together in the first place.
I wasn't worried about what anyone values, nor is this a central
component to my assertion that "ignoring them if you don't like
them" is a "self-aware" way to be.
This entire conversation is analogous to the following short skit:
Dave: <points> Look at that shooting star
Terry: The technical term for shooting star is either "meteor" or
"comet" depending on what the actual composition is. Besides,
those objects cause damage and as such, we must shun them.
Dave: Eh? The word I used was just fine for conveying what I saw.
Oh look, you missed the event. You don't find those events
meaningful?
Terry: Meaning is only relevant to the mathematical concept of
Schelling points. You should use words in accordance with
their proper dictionary definition (Oxford is the one I use).
What event? You have to first prove an event occured before
I will consider that one actually existed. Meteors are horrible
things and anyone taking pleasure in them is a luddite.
=)
------
Dave Hayes - Consultant - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org
>>> The opinions expressed above are entirely my own <<<
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he
will not bite you. This is the principal difference between
a dog and a man.
-- Mark Twain
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