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Date:      Wed, 22 Jan 2003 03:38:04 +0200 (EET)
From:      Narvi <narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee>
To:        Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com>
Cc:        hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: verbose device probing ?
Message-ID:  <20030122024713.I43637-100000@haldjas.folklore.ee>
In-Reply-To: <3E2DE4BB.CCD8F4A5@mindspring.com>

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On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Terry Lambert wrote:

> Narvi wrote:
> > On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Terry Lambert wrote:
> > > The priority field is rather ridiculous, in a volunteer project,
> > > at least one that does not have some sort of scheduling enforcement
> > > (i.e. one could envision a system where all changes must have PR's
> > > associated with them, and priority was assigned by consensus
> > > through the email moral equivalent of a "manager's meeting", and
> > > people were not permitted to check in priority N items, if there
> > > were any PR's of priority > N+1 outstanding, etc.).
> >
> > This is not really true - you can always use the field as a hint to
> > wannabee hackers and patch submitters as to what they should be spending
> > their time on. And while nothing can make sure they actually spend time on
> > those and not other things (whetever related to FreeBSD at all or not) ,
> > its better than a mass of largely uncategorized bugs.
>
> You miss the point, I think.
>
> Nothing you have said has contradicted my statement that priority
> is a group/management decision, not a bug-filer's decision.
>
> Severity means "how bad the bug is biting me personally".
>

As submited - yes. One can easily argue though that it should change to
reflect something larger once in the database.

> Priority means "how much does the group value having this
> fixed".
>
> If the problem is that the wi driver panics the kernel when
> Joe-Bob inserts a prototype card that noly he has, the severity
> is 5 (on a scale of 0-5), but the priority on fixing it for the
> project is probably 0.
>

If only Joe-Bob or some other very limited set of people have the
card, then the severity of the bug in the *FreeBSD* bug database
should probably not be 5 - orherwise the database will contain a
large amount of bugs that claim to be of high severity but only
ever affect neglible amounts of people. That inserting a prototype
card can cause a crash in one particular driver is not really a
high impact / severity bug as far as FreeBSD users/developers as a
whole is concerned.

> In any case, if the priority field is to be meaningful at all,
> there must be a group decision (of some kind) on its value.  It
> is *not* something that should be set by the person reporting
> the problem.
>

This really applies to both fields. It is a question of labelling
and application - for both what the fields and the potential
numerical values for the fields - mean. Some assignemts of meaning
are more useful (according to a metric) than others.

> I'll admit that there is some value for newly arrived uncommitted
> resources to a priority field.  On the other hand, realize that
> in most cases, if the priority is really that high, trivial things
> will be fixed, and it will leave only non-trivial problems, which
> are not really in the scope of ability of a "newby off the street"
> who is looking for some way to start contributing.  For that, you
> almost need a third field "complexity"... which implies analysis
> of problems, which implies scheduling of unschedulable resources,
> etc..  It's a hard problem, with only volunteer resources available;
> I would argue it was intractable, except on an individual basis, in
> fact.
>

And complexity need not be always determinably until the problem is
largely fixed either. But it would be of a large relevenace only if
hard rules were associated with the bug categorisations, instead of
being merely indicators of a sort of the state of the codebase.
Knowing how many 'complex' problems there are with a codebase is
normaly less useful information than knowing how many reported
problems have a large impact or need application of otherwise
unallocated resources.

At least with FreeBSD the meaning of the fields can be just technical
and doesn't need an additional layer for marketing.

> -- Terry
>



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