Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:15:09 -0700 (MST) From: Nate Williams <nate@yogotech.com> To: Jordan Hubbard <jkh@osd.bsdi.com> Cc: nate@yogotech.com, phk@critter.freebsd.dk, grog@lemis.com, rwatson@FreeBSD.org, imp@harmony.village.org, cvs-committers@FreeBSD.org, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Core's function (was: The Project and onward [was: Re: cvs commit: src/sys/netinet ip_output.c]) Message-ID: <15023.49981.504894.198797@nomad.yogotech.com> In-Reply-To: <20010314105913O.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> References: <10215.984516433@critter> <20010313134342A.jkh@osd.bsdi.com> <15023.42546.30738.1117@nomad.yogotech.com> <20010314105913O.jkh@osd.bsdi.com>
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> > True, but if 'core' gave it's blessing to those folks instead of sitting > > back and not getting involved until long *after* the flag-waving > > individual has been so beaten down that they leave in disgust, we may > > get more done. > > I'm afraid that argument doesn't make very much sense. If we truly > have a culture of "beating down" people who wave flags as you say, I believe we do. Note the tone of recent posting of 'everything is a bike-shed'. > then core's encouragement would seem to matter far less than reforming > that culture so that flag wavers aren't getting beaten down in the > first place. Core's lack of involvement is allowing this behavior to continue. Core's involvement would *a* solution, not necessarily the only solution, or even the full solution. > It's sort of like saying that we could solve all these issues with the > high school shootings if every student went to school with an armed > police officer as an escort rather than addressing the culture of > bullying and alienation which is the root of the actual problem. Again, using your analogy above, should the teachers refuse to get involved with the process and wait until *after* the shootings have occurred? That's what you're implying above. Core is the over-sight committee, and by getting involved *earlier* they can have a positive effect on the discussions, and try to help out the discussions so that the bullys don't end up taking over the school. :) > I'm also a little peeved at your accusation that I, by having the > temerity to suggest that people *other* than core should also get > involved, am also saying that I or core don't do jack to encourage > people. I never said. I'm saying that 'individuals' do, but the core as a whole doesn't. When core individuals get involved, they do it as themselves, (and sometimes contribute as much to the problem as the solution). > That's clearly bovine exhaust since I often answer literally > hundreds of emails a day (you should see my outbox) and encourage > people all over the place, as do many others in core That kind of behavior is not just limited to core members, as you well know. I never meant to imply that just because it's not in a public mailing list doesn't mean that work isn't being done. However, what I believe Jeroen is asking for is 'direction' and 'blessing'. What is the future of FreeBSD? What flags are flying that reflect the 'core' values of FreeBSD that are not dead-ends? > (I'm convinced that Robert Watson is a one-man writing machine). Sort-of like Terry, but understandable by normal human-beings. :) > That doesn't make > the "AND WHAT IS CORE DOING ABOUT IT?!?" threads any more tolerable or > prevent me from suggesting, over and over again if necessary, that > other people still need to get off their asses and become part of the > welcome wagon if they want all this new blood and talent. Blood and talent don't know *IF* what they are doing will be accepted, so unless they have direction. > When was the last time YOU mentored someone for committers, might I > ask? My 'mentoring' happens in a CVS tree that is non-public, for reasons you are well aware of. You want me to mentor someone in the FreeBSD tree, just say the word. Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe cvs-all" in the body of the message
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