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Date:      Fri, 19 Aug 2011 08:21:14 -0400
From:      Kris Moore <kris@pcbsd.org>
To:        Lars Engels <lme@FreeBSD.org>,freebsd-arch@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: FreeBSD problems and preliminary ways to solve
Message-ID:  <428ef630-c2b4-4a42-b2c6-c34d63a8f353@email.android.com>
In-Reply-To: <37fed82f77901f0e44abddc6d86895c3@mail.0x20.net>
References:  "<slrnj4oiiq.21rg.vadim_nuclight@kernblitz.nuclight.avtf.net>" <1144162985.20110818235011@serebryakov.spb.ru> <slrnj4r2q8.2853.vadim_nuclight@kernblitz.nuclight.avtf.net> <4E4DD059.50403@freebsd.org> <37fed82f77901f0e44abddc6d86895c3@mail.0x20.net>

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Lars Engels <lme@FreeBSD.org> wrote:

>On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 19:54:17 -0700, Julian Elischer wrote:
>> On 8/18/11 2:59 PM, Vadim Goncharov wrote:
>>> Hi Lev Serebryakov!
>>>
>>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 23:50:11 +0400; Lev Serebryakov wrote about 'Re:
>
>>> FreeBSD problems and preliminary ways to solve':
>>>
>>>>> 8) There is no -STABLE supported branches in ports.
>>>>    I want to be more precise here: not -STABLE, but all -RELEASE
>>>> branches, where "upstream" version of ports/packages never changes,
>>>> and only security bugfixes are backported.
>>> To be even more precise, they need a guarantee that automatic 
>>> updates
>>> will not break anything so that it could be put to cron like 
>>> "apt-cron".
>>> This goal could be satisfied by another means, I hope: FreeBSD 
>>> developers
>>> unlikely to have enough time/efforts to keep it for *all* -RELEASE 
>>> branches,
>>> but for only chosen ones (e.g. extended security support) - may be.
>>>
>> while all the talk about new ports frameworks etc is nice, it is
>> still annoying that the ports and FreeBSD crews don't take
>> the *new* PBI infrastructure that is being pused out with PCBSD-9
>> as an important move.  The new PBI infrastructure should be taken
>> into the ports system  as an important factor.  For those who do not
>> know it, it give a facility somewhat like the what that APPLE
>> applications work. At the potential (not always) for having redundant
>> libraries, every PBI package comes with EVERYTHING IT NEEDS.
>> there are no 'dependnet packages' as such.   On install a
>> survey is made so that if anything is found to be truly duplicated
>> (different versions of the same library are NOT considered a 
>> duplicate)
>> then they share, but if not then each package installs and ONLY USES
>> the stuff that came with it.
>>
>> The ramifications of this (in this era of large disks) are immense.
>> If you unstall all your main applications using PBI, then if you 
>> screw
>> up your ports installed libraries and development environment when 
>> you
>> install some new version of the XXX runtime, *your applications keep
>> working*.
>>
>> A case of "it just works".  For the life of me I don't understand WHY
>
>> there
>> is this resistance to taking it into the fold. Especially when all 
>> the
>>  work has already been done. It won't replace pkgng and it it won't 
>> replace
>> ports because it actually uses ports to generate the PBI packages.
>> But it should be teh default delivery mechanism for binary basic 
>> packages.
>>
>>
>> As I said.. go run an apple for a while and see what it is supposed
>> to be like.
>>
>
>PBIs are a nice thing but....
>
>The thing that sucked about PBIs at least in PCBSD 8.x is that the PBIs
>
>are
>too big to download. We may all have big disks but there are many 
>people around
>who don't have fast internet access. E.g. the Firefox PBI is about 100 
>MB of size
>and there's a new version of it every few days. Add Thunderbird, VLC 
>and OpenOffice
>to that list and your're downloading some GBs per month just to get 
>your security
>holes closed.
>What is the situation like in PCBSD 9.x? I heard that it was planned to
>
>offer
>update deltas which should be much smaller. If that's so, I'm all for 
>PBIs.

FYI, in 9 updates are done via deltas, or more specifically bsdiff, which often makes the download file a fraction of the size. The update to a 100mb firefox pbi may only be 5-6 mb, just depends on the size of the changes. 


-- 
Kris Moore



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