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Date:      Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:22:58 +0200
From:      Wolfram Schneider <wosch@cs.tu-berlin.de>
To:        shimon@simon-shapiro.org
Cc:        freebsd-database@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: [PORTS] Pgaccess doesn't run on -current anymore, Update
Message-ID:  <19980420182258.61494@panke.de>
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.980330115211.shimon@simon-shapiro.org>; from Simon Shapiro on Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 11:52:11AM -0800
References:  <19980330123130.39177@caramba.cs.tu-berlin.de> <XFMail.980330115211.shimon@simon-shapiro.org>

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On 1998-03-30 11:52:11 -0800, Simon Shapiro wrote:
> > That was the hardware part. You must hire a database expert, a Web
> > designer and a cgi script programmer. All people should be willing to
> > work for at least 2-3 years on this project. This is not an easy task.
> 
> Using your logic, we should close the FreeBSD project, as maintaining an
> Operating system like this takes 200-300 kernel experts.  

FreeBSD has less than 10 kernel hackers.


> In other words, if the FreeBSD project cannot find the people to do this,
> then noone can.  BTW, your time estimate is good ig you plan to e paid
> hourly for it.  I nuilt much, much more complex RDBMS based information
> systems in fraction of that time.  An email parser is no more than a week. 
> The text search about the same.

My point was that building a RDBMS is only 10% of the job. The rest is
support, bug fixes, support, support ... It is easy to find someone to
fix/extend a perl script or c program. Finding an oracle expert is
difficult.


> > A full update of the thread database took 6 min on hub (Pentium Pro),
> > thats 100MB/min ;-) An update for the last week took 3-6 seconds.
> 
> Something is too good to be true here.  How can you read Unix filesystems
> at 100 Megabytes per second?

I wrote minutes, not seconds. hub.freebsd.org is a busy
Web/Mail/database server. The disk output for the mailing
lists files is ~1.5MByte/s. This was tested with a
simple 
	find archive -type f| time xargs cat >/dev/null


> Also, if the current engine is so great, how come all these people are
> excited about replacing it?  I have no opinion as my usage is too scarce
> and too superficial to vioce any opinion.  My position is that IF there is
> a desire to build an RDBMS based engine, I will be happy to contribute my
> modest knowledge in the matters and some of my time.

The current engine is not great ;-/ The readers of freebsd-database
are not the typical serach engine users. 

The current usage of the thread database is very low. My impression is
that the average user don't want mail threads. There are ~2000 search
requests and 3000 requests to read a mail (getmsg.cgi) per day. In an
early version of the thread database there where only clickable
Message-ID's and In-Reply-to links. Only 2-3% of the users followed
the links. I changed the getmsg.cgi script and added a 'Next in
thread' and 'Previous in thread' knob. The thread usage grow up to
12-14%. This is still low. Only every 8th user want to read the
'parent' mail or the replies.

In other words, don't wast your time for mail threads until you got
money or want sell the project.

-- 
Wolfram Schneider <wosch@freebsd.org> http://www.freebsd.org/~wosch/

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