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Date:      Sat, 6 Aug 2016 12:00:53 +0200
From:      Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@FreeBSD.org>
To:        Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@FreeBSD.org>
Cc:        Andrey Chernov <ache@freebsd.org>, Mark Martinec <Mark.Martinec+freebsd@ijs.si>, freebsd-current@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: date(1) default format changed between 10.3 and 11.0-BETA3
Message-ID:  <20160806100053.5fpf27pcgona7czp@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net>
In-Reply-To: <20160806041536.GL86883@eureka.lemis.com>
References:  <dc9483611fd37e051fb68532daf10066@mailbox.ijs.si> <3629a441-ee6d-2407-fa13-5ebd8db8d802@freebsd.org> <000c29ee0f3dbd1d433c565023d69e25@mailbox.ijs.si> <a260a332-0c30-2338-bdd8-840524e8bfd8@freebsd.org> <f51cd89227047ff9249d9ecd68cf1646@mailbox.ijs.si> <279e9b67-da23-cdd6-3a77-b084ad8269eb@freebsd.org> <e851f0064ec13ff99d64e63b74f10d58@mailbox.ijs.si> <4a454eef-55ae-b90d-4441-2aa9708fc747@freebsd.org> <20160806041536.GL86883@eureka.lemis.com>

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On Sat, Aug 06, 2016 at 02:15:36PM +1000, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:
> On Friday,  5 August 2016 at 18:56:33 +0300, Andrey A. Chernov wrote:
> > On 05.08.2016 18:44, Mark Martinec wrote:
> >> On 2016-08-05 17:23, Andrey Chernov wrote:
> >>> On 05.08.2016 17:47, Mark Martinec wrote:
> >>>> [Bug 211598]
> >>>>   date(1) default format in en_EN locale breaks compatibility with 1=
0.3
> >>>> and violates POSIX
> >>>>
> >>>> https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D211598
> >>>
> >>> It breaks compatibility but not violates POSIX. POSIX care of only its
> >>> own POSIX (or C) locale.
> >>
> >> POSIX does say that the default format should be the same
> >> as with "+%a %b %e %H:%M:%S %Z %Y".
> >> It also says that %a and %b are locale's abbreviated names.
> >
> > It is true for _POSIX_ locale only, as I already say. en_US.* is not
> > POSIX or C locale.
>=20
> It still violates POLA.
>=20
I really do not think that it violates POLA fiven that the behaviour you are
expecting is still available in the default configurtion that is still POSI=
X.

Set LC_TIME to C and then you are back on your behaviour (and this is the
default when you install FreeBSD).

locales should be seen as tzdata for exemple, they are a moving target
complicated to handle for every locale we do support: 78 for 11.0-RELEASE a=
nd
193 if we do count the encoding variants. locales are updated very often (f=
or
exemple cldr unicode make a new release of the data every 8 month or so)

No locales defines the same date format and that was already the case befor=
e the
change we did

Now if people have strong arguments for a specific locale I'm inclined to a=
dd
some hacks in our tool that generates our locales to make sure we fix the
upstream data (http://cldr.unicode.org) we already committed some and I'm
planning to report upstream (cldr) all the issues we have faced to improve.

Best regards,
Bapt

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