Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:07:03 -0400 From: Randi Harper <sektie@freebsdgirl.com> To: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org> Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Ugly Huge BSD Monster Message-ID: <257847B8-DCEA-11D7-BDAD-000393D46EC6@freebsdgirl.com> In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20030901193303.02a3ddc0@localhost>
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On Monday, September 1, 2003, at 09:47 PM, Brett Glass wrote: > At 07:28 PM 9/1/2003, Randi Harper wrote: > >> I understand if it's all for fun and just for the sake of arguing, >> but no one is ever going to agree or concede to anyone else's point. >> This is about as fruitless as the 'which OS is best?' question. > > Yes, the issue of what to do about the desktop isn't new. > > I remember arguing with Jordan Hubbard the very first time I met him > in person, > which was when I spotted him at a booth run by Walnut Creek CD-ROM at > the first > San Jose LinuxWorld show. The booth had a big sign that said, > "FreeBSD: The > Power to Serve." > > But the issue has now taken on new significance. > > Users are coming to expect that they'll be able to run different > configurations > of the same OS on the server and on the desktop (as they're now doing > with both > Windows and Linux). And it makes good sense for them to want this; it > saves them > a lot on training, and they don't need to maintain two pools of OS > experts. > > The BSDs, alas, are falling behind Linux and Windows because they > don't have > a desktop. GNOME and KDE are developed specifically for Linux, and BSD > has no > equivalent. As mentioned in an earlier message, you can FORCE these > environments > onto a BSD machine, but major portions won't work. And you'd better > have a lot of > technical skill to surmount the obstacles you'll face trying to use > them. > > If BSD doesn't get a desktop of its own (and by this I do NOT mean > Apple's), > it'll have no hope of ever catching up to Linux in the marketplace, > even though > it has the advantages of an ethical license and superior technology. > The only > practical way will be to use it as I do: BSD on the server, MacOS or > Windows > on the desktop. > > --Brett Glass > > > Umm... My mom runs FreeBSD. ;) A desktop of it's own? Let's clarify something here. Having something like gnome or KDE doesn't qualify something as being a 'desktop' or not. Surely you can recall the days before gnome and KDE were popular. What did we use then? Window Maker? Enlightenment? KDE was somewhat popular, but it didn't have the momentum it has now. Yes, those are aimed at the Linux people. And for what it's worth, let them have it. gnome and KDE are the toilet paper of the stinky gas station bathroom that is X11, in my opinion. GTK, an integral part of gnome, works fine in FreeBSD. Instead of people just sitting on their butts and whining 'I need a GUI, I need things to click on, I want something that does stuff for me so I can be a freaking moron but still be able to brag about my uname -a on IRC', wouldn't it make sense to code one? I realize that's easier said than done, but it really isn't that difficult to code with GTK/GLib at all, and in doing so we'd stick with a look and feel that everyone is familiar with and is well supported and integrated into a variety of applications. If there's one thing I've noticed by (mostly) idling on this mailing list, it's that people love to say "we need this", and "it should be this way", or "someone should code this", but no one ever wants to put forth the time to help. It's complete BS. Well, here it is, for what it's worth. I'm willing to put time into this if someone is willing to help. I'd do it on my own, but I've only been doing GTK coding for a few months. My C is mediocre at best, and my understanding of the way X11 handles things is nil. From what I've read, the X11 standard is complete trash, and I'm not delving into that alone. And if no one wants to step forward to help, none of you have anywhere to stand in this discussion. So there. :) Randi Harper sektie@freebsdgirl.com http://freebsdgirl.com
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