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Date:      Mon, 31 May 2010 00:03:17 -0600
From:      Scott Long <scottl@samsco.org>
To:        Kostik Belousov <kostikbel@gmail.com>
Cc:        Roman Divacky <rdivacky@freebsd.org>, current@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: [TESTING]: ClangBSD branch needs testing before the import to HEAD
Message-ID:  <508DA8CE-749A-46B4-AF0B-392DB08CBBCD@samsco.org>
In-Reply-To: <20100530135859.GI83316@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua>
References:  <20100529130240.GA99732@freebsd.org> <20100530135859.GI83316@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua>

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On May 30, 2010, at 7:58 AM, Kostik Belousov wrote:
> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 03:02:40PM +0200, Roman Divacky wrote:
>> hi,
>>=20
>> ClangBSD was updated to LLVM/clang revision 104832 which is what we
>> aim to import into HEAD in roughly a week. We would like the initial
> It was promised that before the import, the public discussion on
> the mailing list will happen. So far, nothing appeared on either
> arch@ or current@ providing argumentation why should we accept this.

Sounds like you're inviting the discussion right now.  I'll start =3D-)

1. I hate gcc with the burning heat of a million suns.  It's not a tool, =
it's a political weapon wielded by the FSF and their acolytes.  It's =
also a crummy piece of software that has been "good enough" for far too =
long.  Its development model is a burden to work with and has been a =
major liability towards FreeBSD releases in the past.  Its demise cannot =
happen soon enough.

2. Due to the political bent of the GPL3 and the FSF's insistence on =
shoving it down everyone's throats, FreeBSD is stuck with a dead-end =
version of gcc.  This has already been a liability in terms of =
addressing bugs in gcc itself, and it will only get worse as technology =
moves forward and gcc stands still.

3. Clang/LLVM has an active development base and a clear future.  It =
will move forward while gcc rots.  There simply is no future left in gcc =
unless the FreeBSD project decides to embrace the GPL3, and that's a =
move that has already been heavily discussed, debated, and decided on.  =
Anecdotally, I think that FreeBSD is benefiting from shunning the GPL3; =
it's made it an attractive option for companies looking for an =
unencumbered OS for their products.

4. While Clang is immature now, it will mature in the near future, and =
FreeBSD will benefit from that process.  FreeBSD will get built-in =
access to upcoming technologies like GCD+Blocks and better code editors =
and development tools that gcc will never support.  It'll break free of =
the development stranglehold that exists within gcc.  Clang has shown =
good agility in adapting to the needs of FreeBSD and the legacy of gcc, =
thanks in large part to the efforts of people like Roman.  Gcc has been =
nothing but drama and headache, even with the valiant efforts of people =
like Alexander Kabaev.

5.  If all of this turns out to not be true and Clang/LLVM fails, =
FreeBSD has lost nothing and can remove it from the base system.  Gcc =
remains where it is for now, at least until it's time for the "remove =
gcc discussion".

The future is !gcc.  Putting Clang+LLVM into a position where it can be =
easily embraced by FreeBSD users will greatly benefit the FreeBSD =
project.

Scott




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