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Date:      Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:44:25 -0800
From:      Kent Stewart <kstewart@urx.com>
To:        Matt Dillon <dillon@earth.backplane.com>
Cc:        Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@ofug.org>, Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>, Danny Braniss <danny@cs.huji.ac.il>, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: soft updates performance
Message-ID:  <3A889F89.8CDD507F@urx.com>
References:  <E14RurO-0000Zl-00@cs.huji.ac.il> <xzp7l2wc6v6.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no> <20010213095300.D2178@wantadilla.lemis.com> <xzp3ddjpjlk.fsf@flood.ping.uio.no> <200102122343.f1CNhd053320@earth.backplane.com> <3A887EB3.6BDD7648@urx.com> <200102130149.f1D1nDr66705@earth.backplane.com>

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Matt Dillon wrote:
> 
> :Thunderbird 900, with 256 MB of PC-133 memory, and using 3 - ATA-66
> :HD's on different controllers. The elapsed time dropped from 58:16 to
> :45:54 by using softupdates.
> :
> :Kent
> 
>     That sounds about right for -pipe.  The original email was
>     1 hour vs 40 minutes, a 20 minute difference which seemed a bit
>     high (what I would expect without -pipe).  46 minutes verses 58 minutes
>     is only a 12 minute 20 second difference, which is more inline with what
>     I would expect.
> 
>     Most of the savings is occuring during the dependancy and
>     cleaning step(s).  The system creates and deletes a huge
>     number of files in a huge number of directories and softupdates
>     really helps there.
> 
>     Softupdates is not helping much during the actual compilation,
>     which is a cpu-bound step if you use -pipe (the creation of the
>     object files costs nothing because there is no other disk activity
>     going on).

On of the differences between the Thunderbird and the P-III is the
FSB. AMD claims it gets 200 out of a 100MHz bus. The P-III are mostly
using a 133 MHz FSB. I have a dual mb arriving shortly with a pair of
866's. The next test. I have a cluster project that would be very
similar to a buildworld. It will end up using 2 - P-II 400's, the AMD,
and the P-III's. Some people I work with run batch jobs that run
overnight but I think they could wait for them to run with a small
version of Purdue's ACME. A few hours of their time would pay for a
small cluster. They don't have any problem with work. It is turning
jobs around that seems to be the bottle neck.

> 
>     The buildworld hits various choke points -- even with -j 128, if
>     there are only 30 files in a library you will generally only see
>     30 compiles going at once.  The final library link stage chokes
>     it down to one process and this will become a pure bandwidth issue
>     for your disk subsystem for a second or so (for the larger libraries).

I have gotten used to watching my buildworld's with top on occasions.
I have setiathome running with a "nice" value for nice. On the AMD
system, when the buildworld is hitting an I/O bottleneck, seti will be
using 40% or more of the system. When it is compute bound, seti
doesn't get any time. I think the accrual of time by seti is a sort of
integrated past history of the system availability due to an I/O type
of bottle neck during the buildworld. It follows the % value reported
by time fairly well. Softupdates is the first time the time % value on
the AMD went above 60%. I think this indicates I have an overall I/O
bottle neck.

The current version of seti writes a small blip of data to the HD
about every 30-60 seconds and so there isn't much HD interaction going
on there. I'm thinking about adding 2 - Ultra-160 scsi's to the system
at some point. For the kind of stuff I do, iozone seems to cover the
HD activity the best. The tagged queing of the scsi deals with small
record random I/O much better than the IDE drives do. From what I have
read, FreeBSD supports tagged queing on the new IBM IDE drives but I
don't have any of them to use to test.

One other point that I would like to understand is why -j4 takes
longer on all of my systems. That goes against what everyone claims
should happen.

Kent

> 
>                                         -Matt

-- 
Kent Stewart
Richland, WA

mailto:kbstew99@hotmail.com
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