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Date:      Wed, 1 Nov 2000 08:20:51 mst7mst
From:      01031149@3web.net
To:        Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org>, questions@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: WTF!! Building from source
Message-ID:  <20001101205217.C485637B4CF@hub.freebsd.org>

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On  1 Nov 00 at 5:27, Mike Meyer wrote:

> leoric@home.com types:
> > I have read things from the FreeBSD webpage, archived mailing list
> > posts, and /usr/src/UPDATING. The proper way to build world and build a
> > kernel from source is different in each of these.

<snip>
 
> Be warned that some of the things that can be set in /etc/make.conf
> can cause the method with config to break, and some can cause the
> system to be unbootable until the intallworld is done.

Hi Mike....

I probably shouldn't do this to the thread, however to me it begs the 
question...

In light of another current thread on this list, "beginners with bsd" and 
the various recommendations therein, it would seem that your above warning 
points to a FBSD deficiency that would absolutely and totally collapse a 
computer and/or FBSD newbie's experience with same. What would you see as 
necessary changes to FBSD to preclude such an experience/event and perhaps 
cast FBSD in something other than a "not-for-the-faint-hearted" OS and 
still retain *all* the flexibility that *nix "power-users" require/demand? 
As always, I look forward to your comments. Tia...
-duke
Calgary,Alberta, Canada

From:          01031149@3web.net
To:            Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org>
Date:          Wed, 1 Nov 2000 08:57:59 mst7mst
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Subject:       Re: beginners with bsd
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On  1 Nov 00 at 5:56, Mike Meyer wrote:

<snip>

> I agree with igor. There is as much to learn with a GUI as with a
> CLI. The difference is that a GUI displays a partial list of things to
> try, instead of having an unknown list of command names. In one case,
> you have to learn what each of the funky buttons does (and I've
> *never* seen a GUI that was intuitively obvious to someone who's never
> used one before), in the other you have to learn the funky words and
> what they do. The GUI makes simple things easy to get to, but that's
> only useful if your definition of "simple things" and the designers
> happen to coincide. If they don't, then you're probably going to wind
> lost in a maze of buttons and menus, trying to find what you
> need. That's much more painful than being lost in a maze of
> directories.

I agree! I've introduced 60+ yr olds to computers who had absolutely *no* 
previous exposure. The win9x GUI was a baffling as a blank, black CLI. 
OTOH, once I installed a *simple* menu program running in a DOS shell, 
showed them the up/down arrows and enter keys, these folks at the 
retirement home quickly rewarded. A couple of months later, I added a 
layer or two to the menu and let them play with *that*. No probs... Once 
they felt comfortable simply sitting in front of a computer and then using 
the menu, learning to navigate the GUI came surprisingly quickly.

IMHnewbieO, the above scenario could have just as easily happened on FBSD. 
However, there's *no way* the majority of the above folks could have 
*installed* FBSD. So maybe an automatic CLI install auto-loading "midc" 
e.g. would be in order? later....




-duke
Calgary,Alberta, Canada


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