Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 15:57:11 +0530 From: Rahul Siddharthan <rsidd@physics.iisc.ernet.in> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.cdrom.com> Cc: "Daniel J. Zaccariello" <marisombra@mindspring.com>, John Papalia <john@jpepconsulting.com>, Jeremiah Gowdy <jgowdy@home.com>, smkelly@slashnet.org, insane@lunatic.oneinsane.net, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Attitudes towards newbies (was Re: FreeBSD and IRC) Message-ID: <20000503155711.A754@physics.iisc.ernet.in> In-Reply-To: <20554.957345701@localhost>; from jkh@zippy.cdrom.com on Wed, May 03, 2000 at 02:21:41AM -0700 References: <4.3.2.20000503012424.00d214e0@pop.mindspring.com> <20554.957345701@localhost>
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Jordan K. Hubbard said on May 3, 2000 at 02:21:41: > > > Channel #FreeBSD on EFNet is a FreeBSD forum, but don't go there > > >for tech support or to try and get folks there to help you avoid > > > This reads that "if you've tried man pages, web site, etc. etc. then maybe > > you'll find what you're looking for in #freebsd. All it says is that it > > No, if your first language is english then it most definitely does not > say any such thing. "don't go there for tech support" means exactly > that, it doesn't mean "maybe you'll find what you're looking for in > #freebsd" as you've somehow tried to creatively interpret it. > > I also don't see how any part of this conversation has been "on > topic" - that's a major stretch! Since JKH hath spoken, does that mean this is the official statement on this subject? This is most definitely on topic: it concerns early experiences of many new users in support, which will affect whether they choose to start using the system or not, and whether they will in turn advocate it to others. More than that, this whole thread speaks of the attitudes of the senior members of the project: if newbies make mistakes, it's ok to walk all over them and it's all their fault. If you're serious about keeping newbies away from #freebsd, make it totally unambiguous. Why put in such vague wording that only suggests that you may not get the help you want and may end up discussing sex instead? If you don't want them to ask questions, **tell them plainly not to ask questions**. When you say the talk may include anything from sex to nukes, surely most normal people won't imagine that asking freebsd questions on a #freebsd channel is sufficiently offtopic to lead to kicking. And why is it buried in the FAQ? Put it on http://www.freebsd.org/support.html where it belongs. Where do you think someone who learns about #freebsd and wants to know about it will look first? Why make that "first language" statement? Apart from sounding condescending, are you suggesting that only English speakers should use the system? I could go on and on, but since you claim this is not "on-topic", I'll say exactly why it's on-topic for me. We're planning to get a few new systems. The default choice would be linux, but I was pushing for FreeBSD on at least one or two systems. Others argue that nobody knows much about FreeBSD locally and I won't be here for very long, so linux would be a safer choice. I didn't give much importance to that argument (anyone can learn...) but after reading this thread, and especially your contributions, JKH (considering your position), I'm having a serious rethink. If I still haven't made it clear: I'm not arguing that tech support questions should be allowed on #freebsd -- I neither know nor care about that, I don't use IRC. But it's a clear that a problem exists, and I'm shocked that you want to deny the problem rather than suggest solutions, and your attitude towards newbies sucks. Rahul. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message
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