Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 16:46:43 +0000 (GMT) From: eagle <eagle@eagle.phc.igs.net> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.cdrom.com> Cc: stox@enteract.com, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: linus on BSD Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990507164358.3829B-100000@eagle.phc.igs.net> In-Reply-To: <41922.926049456@zippy.cdrom.com>
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On Thu, 6 May 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > [reasonable summation of Linus's position elided] > > > > 1) We must not cede the desktop, but trumpet it. We're damn good > > on the desktop, we're even better on the server. Linux and NT > > are disappointments when moved from the desktop to a server > > roles, FreeBSD is a joy. > > Well, here's where I must beg to differ with you. As I've noted in > past postings to this advocacy list, my personal predilection for > focusing on the server market stems from a combination of two factors, > not just one: > > a) My disinclination to charge machine gun nests and other positions > of strength which I have the option of flanking. > > b) My fundamental disappointment with the FreeBSD *community's* > commitment to the desktop. I don't see joy, I see gaping > holes in what we offer and have always offered. > > I didn't start out in FreeBSD with the feeling that our only hope of > salvation lay in focusing on our strengths, that being primarily the > server market, since if you have enough guys you can even charge > machine gun nests successfully if you're willing and able to pay the > price. I was more than willing to fight a two-front war for the > server and the desktop, but I also became rapidly disillusioned of > this when the guys who were supposed to be fighting for the desktop > never showed up. > > I should not have been particularly surprised at this, I suppose, > given that since this project's inception, it's been driven by user > demand and our users have, by and large, come from ISP and "old Unix > guard" demographics. Our users have been people who's primary > interest lies in FreeBSD machines sitting in server rooms and > essentially doing network-based rather than desktop-based services. > > Seeking to change this, we've had desktop contests, we've had logo > competitions, we've done all sorts of things to try and interest > people in desktop-shaped things but, with a few notable exceptions > (the bt848 folks, Luigi, etc), we just haven't been very successful at > it. At some point you simply have to declare a losing strategy for > what it is and that's what I was eventually forced to do with the > desktop; I didn't start out with that opinion, it was simply one > forced on me by pragmatism. > > That said, I can still see this changing as more and more people start > getting more involved at a technical level (seeing someone actively > working on adding MIDI support to our current sound driver was, for > example, a very encouraging development) and that's essentially what > it's going to take. Being credible on the desktop has never been > something held up by marketing, believe it or not, since you first > have to have something, anything, to market before you can start that > phase and we've never gotten that far with FreeBSD on the desktop. > > The desktop installation, even with the small improvements I've made > for 3.2, is minimal at best and support by 3rd party multimedia ISVs > (things like RealAudio G3, Macromedia plug-ins, etc) almost > non-existent for FreeBSD. You can't just pull this stuff out of thin > air, either, you have to address it and you need to put a LOT of time > into crafting comfortable desktop environments for the beginning user > before any cozy sound-bites on how FreeBSD is now buddy-buddy with the > desktop will sound even remotely credible. > > Do I see people out there who are finally willing to *do the work* of > making FreeBSD a credible desktop solution or do I simply see the > usual array of faces wondering when it's going to happen by sheer > magic? :-) > > - Jordan > > P.S. If you need ideas for where to start, just go install the very > latest SuSE or Red Hat Linux distributions sometime. They don't do a > *lot* more than we do, and in some areas they do considerably less, > but the areas where they do honestly hold the user's hand more > effectively are nonetheless instructive. Learn from them. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > Adding to Jordans comments about the desktop, we aren't going to ever see commercial games, and other commercial graphic software without the tools to support the software. We don't have anything to offer at this point to a Game developer, that should finally answer the question of why guys like id games are developing stuff for linux and not freebsd, the answer lies simply in opengl accelerated drivers native to freebsd. Rob To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message
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