Date: 06 Mar 2002 10:20:27 -0700 From: John-David Childs <jdc@nterprise.net> To: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: I'm kinda happy (wasI bought your system and am not so happy!) Message-ID: <1015435228.15470.79.camel@lohr> In-Reply-To: <012d01c1c4db$9d47b9d0$6f830acf@gdennyj> References: <15492.31410.219242.379055@guru.mired.org> <20020306061548.A307237B400@hub.freebsd.org> <012d01c1c4db$9d47b9d0$6f830acf@gdennyj>
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This is the first time in eight years I've felt the need to "weigh in" on this debate, which seems to come up about once/quarter. and last for about two months ;-) Back in the old days, I was very happy that *BSD wasn't Linux. Except for one BSD lpr bug (1995/6?) I could sleep soundly every night knowing that 95+% of the active script-kiddie exploits weren't going to affect any of the web/mail/ftp/file server's I'd built (and most of the other exploits wouldn't work if you changed (almost) anything from the default installation) . It was fine by me that I was "the only" person who knew enough about those machines to keep 'em humming. Now, more increasingly, as I (try to) continue building FreeBSD servers for one job or another (especially larger companies with established I.S. departments), I'm faced with "Well, if it's going to be one of the free *nix's, why not Linux...the learning curve for our existing (Solaris/HP/IBM) admins isn't as much, and it's now possible to build "secure" Linux (Bastille comes to mind, plus many OS hardening projects and recent default installations). We can do cool things like cut and paste from the password/shadow file between Linux/Solaris (ugh), our junior admins can build dozens or hundreds of (scripted or not) build-boxes", etc. The fact that Linux is, for the most part, a better desktop workstation (especially for new/cool stuff), and is easier for first time installers, translates directly into up-and-coming sysadmins wanting to use Linux for server environments...whether or not *BSD is better, faster, safer (we all know that every junior sysadmin feels invincible to "stoopid" hackers (or at least better/more lucky than the average)). The fact that Linux gets the vast majority of the free OS press translates directly into OS "debates" by "dangerously-semi-knowledgeable" middle managers everytime anything but Linux is suggested. The fact that *BSD is still predominantly a niche player has its advantages and disadvantages, but the recent Walnut Creek->BSDi->who the hell were they->FreeBSD Mall (aka the company formerly known as Walnut Creek) debacle is a definate example of why *BSD needs to have an established (unfortunately aka corporate) presence of its own. Darwin helps that cause *a lot*, but unfortunately Apple is itself a niche player, albeit with a semi-hefty pocketbook. Without "a corporation", and all the fluff which goes with it (marketing, ease of install, gui-fied wizards, etc), the *BSD brain trust won't be able to continue donating time to a good cause, and new *nix wizards will be weaned in the Linux camps...possibly coming over from the dark side relatively late in their overworked-underpaid careers... On Tue, 2002-03-05 at 23:53, Denny Jodeit wrote: > Don't be afraid to ask questions. I was kinda flamed for my post to the > original thread, for my attitude, but....I can guarantee that 98% of all And this fact is not just sad, but completely pathetic. The holier-than-thou stance of hardcore *BSD enthusiasts is stupid, embarrassing, and definately not helping "the cause". > Personally, I hope FreeBSD never hits the mainstream. Is it just me, or does > RedHat look more and more like Microsoft and Windows everyday ? > .........get my drift ? Yes, it does. And so too, to a lesser extent, is Mandrake (which IMHO has the best of both worlds...it's easy to install, relatively secure, supported somewhat by a corporation, and a rabid (anti-RedHat) user-base). Redhat may have taken "corporate ambition" too far, and may in the end get stung by it...but failure to at least step on the first rung of the corporate ladder will ultimately lead to *BSD's demise and dissapearance into the void.... "Wasn't that a really cool OS they had about 20 years ago...I sure wish I could find an emulator for it...." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
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