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Date:      Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:28:09 -0700
From:      John Armstrong <siberian@siberian.org>
To:        freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Question about the mascot
Message-ID:  <v0421014fb3d9e91c182f@[216.112.76.84]>
In-Reply-To: <199908131516.AA025387378@broccoli.graphics.cornell.edu>
References:  <199908131516.AA025387378@broccoli.graphics.cornell.edu>

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Hey folks-
	Any chance of taking this to -advocacy, -chat or to personal 
email? Its really off topic for -questions. freebsd-advocacy strikes 
me as particularly relevant and there are a ton of people there who 
love to work on these sorts of issues. I'd even say that on -advocacy 
you are talking to a group who is very interested in the subject 
_and_ in a position to do something about it if need be. -questions 
doesn't really have the contextual advantage or 'star power'.

Thanks
John-

At 11:16 AM -0400 8/13/99, Mitch Collinsworth wrote:
> >> >There just aren't enough people who'll shy away from the little
> >> >devil to make the creation of a whole 'nother set of material
> >> >worth the effort.
> >>
> >> Are you stating this as a fact, based on market research you can
> >> reference?  Or as an assumption based on opinion?
> >
> >Elementary logic:
> >
> >1) Though I've been involved in the computer business for nearly
> >30 years, I haven't observed anyone who might have bought an
> >operating system who'd also have rejected one because of a
> >devilish mascot. This doesn't prove that such people don't exist;
> >it does put a stringent upper bound on their numbers.
>
>This "stringent upper bound" suggests that you have observed a
>significant fraction of all potential OS buyers.  I don't know you
>but I find that difficult to believe without any current market
>research.  The market of buyers is expanding at a fast enough rate to
>make 30 years in the industry rather meaningless in terms of measuring
>the market _today_.  My head is still spinning after observing how
>fast M$ took over the desktops in this dept.  Two years ago they were
>100% unix.  Today there are three left[1] and two of those are grad
>students overdue to graduate and leave.  The 3rd is mine.  What I'm
>suggesting is that you've grossly underestimated the present size of
>the OS marketplace based on historical observation of a market
>significantly smaller than exists today.
>
>
> >2) The burden of proof is always on the person who asserts "there
> >exists".
>
>I wasn't asking you to prove your claim, only asking if you were
>claiming it as a proven fact or as your personal opinion.  It appears
>to be the latter.  That's fine, but please don't assert opinion as a
>proven fact.
>
>-Mitch
>
>
>[1] Just a FYI to try to add some context to this.  The discussion
>above was regarding "desktops".  We also have a number of backroom
>"servers" that do all the things home users now expect from their
>ISP:  DNS, mail, web, ftp, news, dhcp, etc, plus large amounts of
>file storage, tape backups, etc, etc.
>
>We are currently in the process of upgrading most of these aging unix
>systems and replacing them with FreeBSD.  This puts me in the position
>of being able to promote FreeBSD to a significant number of people
>(grad students) who have M$ on their current desktop, but in a year or
>two will have the opportunity to influence software decisions in a
>number of different schools and businesses.  If they observe that
>FreeBSD works well in the backroom here and M$ is less than pleasant
>where they move to next, they may just speak up about it!  But if when
>they walk through the machine room (which they happen to do frequently,
>as it unfortunately doubles as a short-cut to our video editing lab)
>and all they see is a row of non-descript PC hardware with no hint of
>what OS they're running, they may never know it's "FreeBSD inside".
>Opportunity lost.
>
>I took the time to explain all this because I've sensed that through
>the course of this discussion most of the participants have appeared
>to be considering choice of OS as merely a personal, what's-on-my-
>desktop issue.  I would like everyone to realize that the computing
>world doesn't end at the desktop.  There are lots of businesses that
>do a whole lot more with computers than just desktops, and in my view
>FreeBSD can be an excellent choice for many of those back-room systems.
>It's certainly my first choice.  But because the "cute little devil"
>can lead to misunderstandings, I feel the current stickers are best
>left out of sight.  It's no longer as simple as claiming "freedom of
>speech" when you're making decisions with a computer that isn't yours.
>
>
>
>
>
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