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Date:      Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:51:24 -0700
From:      Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com>
To:        Socketd <db@traceroute.dk>
Cc:        hackers@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: 5 "Advanced" networking questions
Message-ID:  <3F0BAD5C.65895290@mindspring.com>
References:  <20030707012205.3103dfc8.db@traceroute.dk> <20030707153314.GA1695@webboy.soth.at> <20030707180252.44036c61.db@traceroute.dk> <3F0A9A1C.25E6EB35@mindspring.com> <20030708131339.16da151f.db@traceroute.dk> <20030708140012.0fd685c8.db@traceroute.dk>

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Socketd wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 04:17:04 -0700
> Terry Lambert <tlambert2@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > > I don't want to disable ICMP, just don't want to respond when ttl=0,
> > > meaning when my firewall/gateway is on a "traceroute path".
> >
> > You should specifically modify the ICMP code to not respond
> > to echo datagrams, or when ttl == 0, then, and work it that
> > way.  In other words, it's time to hack your network stack
> > to specifically add that "feature".
> 
> Hmm, why not just use a firewall?

Because most firewalls, even commercial ones, don't block the
ICMP messages you appear to be interested in blocking.

You appeared to want to turn your FreeBSD box into what's
normally called a "stealth" system: one that doesn't respond
at all to external probe attempts.  So it looked like you
were trying to *write* a firewall, or at least find a set
of rules that would let your FreeBSD box act as a "stealth"
one.

The current FreeBSD doesn't support "stealth"; it's generally
something you do to stop network finger-printing and/or to use
as a base for launching your own attacks and/or in an attempt
to protect a Windows box that can't protect itself very well.

If you want the feature in FreeBSD, you are going to need to
hack some code.  If you are willing to go out ans spend money
on a "stealth" firewall box, well, you should feel free to do
that, too; if you do, I reccomend "SunScreen" from Sun Microsystems,
though in general, I don't recommend using "stealth" firewalls,
since they break a number of end-to-end guarantees:

	http://wwws.sun.com/software/securenet/index.html

If you want a real firewall, I recommend the Cisco PIX:

	http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/cc/pd/fw/sqfw500/

I also recommend reading about the drawbacks of using "stealth"
firewalls, to help decide whether you want to avoid attackers
by hiding from them, or avoid attackers by having working firewall
software which has been usefully auidted, instead.  8-).

	http://web.proetus.com/reference/stealthfw/

If you just want to avoid ICMP echo datagrams, I'd change my filter
criteria from what you are asking (TTL==0) to ICMP type, and filter
packets of type 11 and 0 using the ipfw "icmptypes" option on your
filter type.  It's not the same thing as a "stealth" firewall, but
it is good enough to handle your initial complaint, which was the
ability to traceroute.  Then you wouldn't need to buy another
machine.

-- Terry



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