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Date:      Mon, 12 Jan 2015 11:46:52 -0800
From:      "Chris H" <bsd-lists@bsdforge.com>
To:        Warren Block <wblock@wonkity.com>
Cc:        Royce Williams <royce@tycho.org>, Deb Goodkin <deb@freebsdfoundation.org>, ports <freebsd-ports@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: BIND REPLACE_BASE option
Message-ID:  <9f016d9eec43a047bcfbae526367a2c1@ultimatedns.net>
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1501121119020.82614@wonkity.com>
References:  <mailman.1.1420977600.74846.freebsd-ports@freebsd.org> <20150111235449.A14AEF52@hub.freebsd.org> <20150112040129.GA16097@lonesome.com> <CAG=rPVcTsT2izsmdGMJtD6RgRJ3CwfZg1vN6nC%2BvRMYEQ8iPhA@mail.gmail.com> <20150112122652.GA9472@lonesome.com> <54B3BE2C.6030207@sorbs.net> <20150112123241.GB9472@lonesome.com> <54B3C28C.10605@sorbs.net> <20150112130804.GD44537@home.opsec.eu> <CA%2BE3k92LJPRNA-pj_5EkheMogWitpCfgaUi==KsfAz=gZMu5jw@mail.gmail.com> <fe6efb4ec026964fb08d50ada48957a5@ultimatedns.net>, <CA%2BE3k92wtj_584PvgjLmHXCyYPLX9%2B95SkC8fdfHK%2BZR0sdybg@mail.gmail.com> <9132c8812ccd3906dd487830a912d00c@ultimatedns.net>, <alpine.BSF.2.11.1501121119020.82614@wonkity.com>

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On Mon, 12 Jan 2015 11:57:26 -0700 (MST) Warren Block <wblock@wonkity.com>
wrote

> On Mon, 12 Jan 2015, Chris H wrote:
> 
> > Here is where we will clash; I've been riding *BSD for over 20yrs.
> > It's *biggest* asset has been in it's flexibility -- it wasn't another
> > Linux "dist", that required me to essentially become a "clone" of
> > every other Linux install. The Ports system, and /src allowed one to
> > tailor my build/install to meet *my* needs. I wasn't required, in fact
> > I was *encouraged*, to have a unique system. Frankly the new pkg(8)
> > *requirement* was a complete 180 on this philosophy.
> 
> Huh?  It is the same as the old package system, required if you want to 
> use ports or packages.  The difference is that pkg is not in base, so it 
> can be easily upgraded without doing an OS upgrade.  Ports continue to 
> work as they did with the old package system, only package operations 
> are faster and more reliable.
Sure, it's intended to *feel* like pkg_, but the (way) it's implemented
bears little resemblance to pkg_, and it's implementation also *abruptly*
pulled the rug out from under many years of development work, carefully
crafted work by development shops to keep their stream flowing smoothly
and more efficiently. [I'm kicking a dead horse here]

> 
> My main complaint with pkg is the persistent misunderstanding that 
> binary packages are a direct replacement for ports.
> http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/html/pkg.html
I'd be inclined to agree here.

> 
> As for the original topic, BIND in base had the same upgrade problems as 
> the old package system.  The port overwriting the base was a convenient 
> but nasty hack.  Not even that convenient, because all that changes with 
> the port is the config files are in /usr/local/etc rather than /etc.  A 
> chroot adds little security or isolation, and if you want that it should 
> be in a jail or other type of VM anyway.
> https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/jails-ezjail.html#
Speaking of kicking "dead horses"; I'm still amazed that this topic
still continues. I remember the initial discussion on this about 9mos ago,
and thought;
OK. That seems to make sense. I'd better see if I can cobble up
something that mimic's the old setup, so I can keep things going, until
I find a suitable replacement for the BIND.
Took me less than 2hrs. Point being; there was a fair amount of time
before the BIND got yanked (unlike the pkg change). So I'm amazed so
many people are, well, amazed.

--Chris

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