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Date:      Thu, 19 Sep 1996 10:27:37 -0500 (CDT)
From:      Joe Greco <jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com>
To:        rls@mail.id.net (Robert Shady)
Cc:        jfarmer@sabre.goldsword.com, dennis@etinc.com, nik@blueberry.co.uk, isp@freebsd.org, jfarmer@goldsword.com
Subject:   Re: Routers - hardware received wisdom
Message-ID:  <199609191527.KAA10968@brasil.moneng.mei.com>
In-Reply-To: <199609191427.KAA09043@server.id.net> from "Robert Shady" at Sep 19, 96 10:27:20 am

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> > I think that Dennis' comment & what Joe said in his note answered a question 
> > that I've had lurking in the back of my mind, "Just what is sufficient to run 
> > a FreeBSD T-1 capable router?"
> > 
> > Granted that a no-name MB & 133Mhz 486 is running around $120, but I
> > "happen to have" a 386/33, 8mb, 300mb disk sitting in the corner, with
> > an ethernet card in it (isa only :^,).  And I have a need for a T-1 capable
> > box soon.  Since it would be a fairly un-saturated T-1, I suspect that
> > I will be able to get away with it for a while...  Then the question becomes,
> > how many 56/64k/128/256k frame relay links could a "little" box like that
> > handle?  (Must be the Scots in me, I hate to throw away anything!)
> 
> Let's think about this logically people.. We're only talking about a MAX
> of 187 Kilo-Bytes per second for a single T1 line...  I've got calculators
> that could max that out!  Now.. When you start throwing multiple ethernet
> devices in there, and you want to provide wire-to-wire speed acrossed those,
> that is another story..  We're using a 486DX4-120Mhz w/32MB of RAM here, and
> it is running 3 100Mb Intel Etherexpress cards, and 2 10Mb SMC Elite Ultra
> cards.. It does a decent job, although I don't know that I would expect to
> be able to get full wire speeds on all ethernet cards simultaneously..  But
> luckily, we have enough segments and switches that we don't need to worry
> about that, yet.

Rob,

With all due respect it is not that simple.

I suspect that with MTU-sized packets, I can easily go wire to wire
with 10baseT at peak speeds even on a 386DX/40 with SMC ISA cards. 
Actually I was doing that at one point, IIRC, and it worked fine.

I suspect that with very small packets, the same machine will have
abysmal performance.

Dennis' T1 sync serial cards are most similar to an Ethernet card, and
I will flat out state that I can saturate your DX4/120 CPU before I hit 
T1 saturation if I attempt to saturate that T1 link with miniature packets.
I have saturated a DX5/133 with this test and it is ugly.

On the other hand, the router on the other end was clearly swamped and
was only returning one packet for every three I sent (I could see it
on the CSU/DSU lights, it was not due to my local CPU being saturated). 
Some Livingston piece of junk, I believe.

It is clearly very dependent on the kind of data you send.  I think I can
floor even a large Cisco with the right kind of abuse so maybe it's a
pointless discussion.  I will certainly be the first in line to say that 
I was pretty happy with a 386DX/40 as a T1-Ethernet router... but I will 
also be the first to properly qualify that statement.

... JG



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