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Date:      Fri, 29 Apr 2011 13:21:17 -0700
From:      "Devin Teske" <dteske@vicor.com>
To:        "'Mike Meyer'" <mwm@mired.org>, "'Paul Schenkeveld'" <freebsd@psconsult.nl>
Cc:        'FreeBSD Hackers' <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>
Subject:   RE: [RELEASE] New Boot-Loader Menu
Message-ID:  <003b01cc06ab$0002a790$0007f6b0$@vicor.com>
In-Reply-To: <20110429152423.11736f82@bhuda.mired.org>
References:  <9AD2C0D5-F2A7-4F20-B04A-AF9BFC5918F7@vicor.com>	<20110429130820.5056390e@bhuda.mired.org>	<000301cc069f$edf8bd10$c9ea3730$@vicor.com> <20110429152423.11736f82@bhuda.mired.org>

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Meyer [mailto:mwm@mired.org]
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 12:24 PM
> To: Devin Teske
> Cc: 'FreeBSD Hackers'
> Subject: Re: [RELEASE] New Boot-Loader Menu
> 
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 12:02:03 -0700
> "Devin Teske" <dteske@vicor.com> wrote:
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Mike Meyer [mailto:mwm@mired.org] I'd like to revisit the
> > > numbers vs. letters for menu options. IIRC (and I may
> > not),
> > > an earlier version used letters for the menu options, and people
> > > objected to
> > that
> > > change.
> >
> > Looking at the CVS history of the Forth code that renders the menu,
> > I'm
> > noticing:
> >
> > If there was an earlier version of the menu that used letters, I'm not
> > seeing it in CVS.
> 
> I was referring to your code, not the historical FreeBSD code. Didn't you
originally
> propose using letters, not numbers, to toggle the boot options? If not, then
> possibly I'm remembering another proposal.

You're recalling a response to the thread that I started on March 28th, 2011
(last month):
THREAD-HEAD:
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/2011-March/034824.html

The "letters not numbers" post that you're recalling was by Paul S. (below):
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/2011-March/034830.html

Although Paul makes a point that the letters would be helpful, his complaint
about the numbers being changed is a red-herring (he saw the unreleased mock-up
image of my boot-loader -- in the thread-head URL above -- presenting different
numbers and complained that if the numbers change that sysadmins would be
confused). However, the reality is that [a] the final release indeed matches the
numbers with the existing boot loader and [b] the numbers have not changed in 7
years).

Paul, ... supporting evidence to show that the numbers (1-7) have never changed
since their initial commit to CVS on May 30th, 2003 (see the "beastie-menu"
forth word in version 1.1 of beastie.4th circa RELENG_5_0):
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/src/sys/boot/forth/beastie.4th

The case is merely that Paul would like to see this additional feature added
(letters as mnemonics). I couldn't find any claims that any previous version
(either of my code or official FreeBSD code) ever supported it in the past.

So, I think that the grand-total comes to 5 people now that have requested
hot-keys for the single-user and verbose menu items:

Paul S. (msg #034830)
Zhihao Y. (msg #034831)
Damien F. (msg #034841)
Yourself (Mike M.) (msg #035192 & msg #035197)
and Myself (Devin T. msg #035195)

Let's see if we can't get that list a little higher.

Keep in-mind, the proposal (at least for right now) is to have me extend my code
to bold the "S" in "Single User", bold the "V" in "Verbose", and accept the S/V
key as toggles for these features, all the while maintaining the current number
scheme.

NOTE: I'm going to wait a couple weeks before starting on this, as I've
currently got a couple of other companies evaluating the boot loader in its
current form and would like their feedback before moving forward on the next
revision.

> 
> > > In particular, there was a study done around '80 (I tried to find it
> > > but
> > couldn't; I
> > > know of someone who can probably provide a reference if someone
> > > really wants
> > > it) that showed that menu selection with letters assigned
> > > mnemonically are easiest for users to memorize.
> >
> > I can believe that quite easily. However, currently the boot menu does
> > not support such letters. I think this new loader menu is the perfect
> > place to implement them.
> 
> This seemed like a good time to change it if we were going to to me.

I couldn't agree more.
-- 
Devin


> 
> > On another note, I have one other change that I'd like to get in... I
> > noticed that (in CVS) the menu currently blanks-out option #2 if
> > booting on a system where ACPI is disabled or unavailable. In my boot
> > loader, I'd like to display "ACPI Support: N/A" rather than simply blanking
out
> the menu item.
> 
> That would certainly make the numbers make more sense.
> 
>      Thanks,
>      <mike
> --
> Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org>
> 	http://www.mired.org/consulting.html
> Independent Software developer/SCM consultant, email for more information.
> 
> O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org

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