Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 21:31:25 -0800 (PST) From: Kevin Eliuk <root@kevin.sunshine.net> To: Wes Peters - Softweyr LLC <softweyr@xmission.com> Cc: Andrew Perry <andrew@python.shoal.net.au>, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mailing lists archives Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.970330205959.658B-100000@kevin.sunshine.net> In-Reply-To: <199703281840.LAA10068@xmission.xmission.com>
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On Fri, 28 Mar 1997, Wes Peters - Softweyr LLC wrote: > I recently sniveled: > % GENERAL FREEBSD_QUESTIONS USAGE NOTE: > % You should search for this message in the mail archives before sending > % it to 50,000 people or so via email; this subject has been discussed ad > % nauseum. > > Andrew Perry replied: > > I couldn't agree with you more, however, having asked this particular > > question myself, and other equally overasked questions, I think we should > > address what I see as the problem. > > > > When you look around on the FreeBSD sites for help, the mailing lists, > > especially "questions" are put forward as the primary support while the > > "search the archives" option is more of an aside. Maybe it should be > > stressed on this page that you CAN ask on questions for help (as we're > > such a friendly bunch of people), but FIRST one should search the archive > > to see if it's been asked before. (and answered) > > Good point. The mailing lists are listed much more prominently on the > web site and the CD-ROM booklet than the mail archives. On the other > hand, this topic is mentioned every month in the 'How to get more out > of the FreeBSD mailing lists' message. > > On the other hand, this particular question has been asked 3 - 5 times > every week for nearly three months now. Having personally answered it > a number of times, it is really starting to get redundant. I know that > many of the people picking up FreeBSD these days are new to the net as > well as UNIX, but it really is quite disturbing to see the social > structure that used to be so much a part of internet communications > breaking down so rapidly. > > I am amazed (and disappointed) by the number of people these days who > will jump into a mailing list or newsgroup without *any* idea of what > happens there on a daily basis. Perhaps if *some* of the newbies > lurked in this group for a week or two, they'd see something about > these "archives" and go seek them out before asking the same perfectly > good question that was asked, and answered, once every day the week > before. > > > Also maybe we should try and encourage people to have more relevant > > subject lines to make the search option a little more friendly. > > Given the number of mesages here every day with *no* subject, or a > subject of "Question" or "Problem", I don't see this happening any time > soon. Your best bet is to not waste your time with subject-line > searches. If you have a problem with PPP and routing, search for PPP > and routing in the message bodies. > > -- > "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" > > Wes Peters Softweyr LLC > http://www.xmission.com/~softweyr softweyr@xmission.com > > > > Wes, As a someone new to UNIX and relatively new to the internet I would like to inform you about what steps I took before posing the same question that annoys thee so much. -- First I went to the Handbook which I downloaded then updated to find out that I was suppose to enter the tun0 device into my /etc/sysconfig file. Even in the most recent version this still is one of the steps that you are instructed to take. -- Second go to the mail archives ( you must do this with dos at this point because, ... well ...) and you search the archives. For me, this did not help at the time I was doing my settup. -- Third you search through the the world wide web to see if any ISP's have instructions to scripting for PPP in FreeBSD. ATT was one of the results which again instructs you to configure your tun device in the sysconfig file. -- By this time the frustration level is so high that you feel like a real loser and that maybe you have made a mistake with tackling this in the first place. Your ISP, when you question them are worried that you may bring down their system. So forthly you ask FreeBSD-Questions. I'm glad that you weren't answering your mail that week, because I would have probably formatted my partition and told anyone else that using UNIX is only suitable for 3rd or 4th year academics. In closing, I know as someone who is self-employed that a question from someone ignorant about your profession can often seem like something they should already know or should they should find out on their own. But I realize that some compassion is required because a person that is not afraid to ask a question in order to learn should be encouraged. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @ **For Windows viewing set to System Font** @ ÉÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ» º ÛßßßßßÜ ÜßßßßßÜ ÛÞÜ ÞÞ Û ßßßßßß ÛßßßßßÜ ÞÝ ÛÞÜ ÞÞ ÞÞÝ ÜßßßßßßÜ º º ÛÞßßßßÜÞ ÛÞßßßÝÛ ÛÞÞÝ ÞÞ Ý ßßÛÞßß ÛÞßßßÝÛ ÛÛ ÛÞÞÝ ÞÞ ÞÞÝ ÛÞßßßßÝÛ º º ÛÞ ÛÞ ÛÞ ÝÛ ÛÞ Û ÞÞ ß ÛÞ ÛÞÜÜÜÝÛ ÞÝÞÝ ÛÞ Û ÞÞ ÞÞÝ ÛÞ º º ÛÞ ÛÞ ÛÞ ÝÛ ÛÞ ÞÝÞÞ ÛÞ ÛÞÜÜÜÜß ÛÜÜÛ ÛÞ ÞÝÞÞ ÞÞÝ ÛÞ º º ÛÞÜÜÜÜßÞ ÛÞÜÜÜÝÛ ÛÞ ÛÞÞ ÛÞ ÛÞ ÞÝÜÜÞÝ ÛÞ ÛÞÞ ÞÞÝ ÛÞÜÜÜÜÝÛ º º ÛÜÜÜÜÜß ßÜÜÜÜÜß ÛÞ ÞÛÞ ÛÞ ÛÞ Û Û ÛÞ ÛÞ ÞÞÝ ßÜÜÜÜÜÜß º ÌÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÑÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ͹ º ùùùù---------==========ðððððPowered By FreeBSD http://www.freebsd.org º º Kevin G. Eliuk ³ Email Reply To: kevin_eliuk@sunshine.net º º P.O. 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