Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:42:45 +0200 From: Bram Moolenaar <Bram@moolenaar.net> To: Nikola Lecic <nlecic@EUnet.yu> Cc: Mark Linimon <linimon@lonesome.com>, freebsd-x11@FreeBSD.org, Kris Kennaway <kris@obsecurity.org> Subject: Re: Avoiding upgrade to xorg 7.2 Message-ID: <200706140942.l5E9gjP0024901@moolenaar.net> In-Reply-To: <200706132257.l5DMvrfO028558@smtpclu-5.eunet.yu>
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Nikola Lecic wrote: > On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 23:23:01 +0200 > Bram Moolenaar <Bram@moolenaar.net> wrote: > > > [...] > > My problem is that for people who don't know exactly how the ports > > system works and don't keep track of messages in CVS logs or maillists > > it has become very difficult to use the ports system. It's almost as > > if it's only for a small group of people who keep their secrets away > > from casual users. I know this isn't so, but that's what it looks > > like from the outside. > >=20 > > My main complaint is that the dependencies are not working properly. > > So I have xorg 6.9. If I upgrade some port that works just fine with > > xorg 6.9 there should not be a dependency on xorg 7.2. This is a > > generic problem with the ports system, it appears. > > [...]=20 > > May I raise a hand here, among you great programmers :) Bram, I'm an > ordinary ("casual") FreeBSD _user_ (which means, totally "from the > outside"), and I must say I deeply disagree here. > > Reading the mailing lists and possession of secret knowledge are not > proviso to use the ports. One _has_ to read Handbook (once) and UPDATING > (always). For plain installations, without tweaking, that's ALL, and > it's simple. If one follows word by word what is written there, > everything will work flawlessly and no special knowledge on how the > ports system works is needed, including the case of Xorg update. > > And that is the most impressive thing about FreeBSD, as we say here, > that it "works as a Swiss watch", and does it at every moment, despite > constant flow and changing. As of ports system, it's so smart and so > perfectly done that the most basic usage and the most advanced > tuning/hacking work hand-by-hand, with the same tools! The fact that it > _works_ impresses me as a human handiwork and a genial construction, > from a wider intellectual perspective, not only as a piece of software. > > I humbly suggests you to follow those couple of steps from UPDATING > (since it counts as a regular thing you always do), use packages to save > the time, and your computer will be refreshed and shiny next morning. Glad to hear you have good experiences with the port system. I do wonder how much downtime you have while updating the ports. I'm afraid my experiences are not so good. Many times I got stuck halfway a port upgrade and somehow had to manually fix things. I can't risk breaking my machine to a level where X11 won't start. So I'm very careful with updating ports. And I can't wait for a couple of days for builds to finish (not to mention that there is very often something wrong, such as running out of disk space, a file that can't be downloaded, etc.). The only policy that appears to work for me is to wait for a new FreeBSD release, install it and then update the ports I use. This takes a couple of days, so I only do this twice a year. Generally, after a month or so the dependencies get so complicated that when updating a small port triggers rebuilding nearly everything. -- You can tune a file system, but you can't tuna fish -- man tunefs /// Bram Moolenaar -- Bram@Moolenaar.net -- http://www.Moolenaar.net \\\ /// sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\ \\\ download, build and distribute -- http://www.A-A-P.org /// \\\ help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org ///
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