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Date:      Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:33:51 +0100
From:      Eivind Eklund <perhaps@yes.no>
To:        "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
Cc:        Eivind Eklund <perhaps@yes.no>, Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>, shimon@simon-shapiro.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: X based Free installation
Message-ID:  <19980114003351.50746@follo.net>
In-Reply-To: <19357.884677597@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Mon, Jan 12, 1998 at 11:46:37PM -0800
References:  <86hg79z7an.fsf@bitbox.follo.net> <19357.884677597@time.cdrom.com>

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On Mon, Jan 12, 1998 at 11:46:37PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
> > There is only one organizational problem with FreeBSD that I see
> > clearly today: Responsibility too often boils down to a group of
> > people, instead of one person.  I think each submission/contact to
> > FreeBSD should boil down to the responsibility of _one_ person.
> 
> Yeah, but he's getting kinda busy. ;-)

_Each_ submission, not all of them.  *grin*

> > I previously posted to chat advocating a mentor program which
> > basically boiled down to this (people that wanted to contribute could
> > mail committers and get a single contact person, who then were
> > responsible for their submissions).  I got almost no response.
> 
> Not surprising.  No infrastructure to support such a program, really,
> especially when the mentor/mentoree relationship is so dynamic.  Who
> takes over the mentorees for a mentor who's leaving or otherwise going
> to be indisposed for some period of time?  How do they communicate?
> How does a mentoree choose a mentor, or vice-versa?  These are the
> details in which the devil lies, so to speak - the actual "idea"
> is trivial.  The implementation rather less so.

I was thinking of something as simple as:

* Mentor chooses mentoree by seeing mentorees e-mail to committers (or
  if the committers think this is a bad idea, to hackers, or to a
  mailing-list set up for the purpose) with: `Hi, I'd like a mentor.
  My interests and skills are roughly as follows, and I'm willing to
  work on...'
* Mentor and mentoree communicate by e-mail, phone, fax, IRC, and/or
  smoke signals.  (Basically, any method that works.)
* Everybody without a mentor fall back to the present system.  There's
  no reason why all of this should go away, is there?  If necessary, a
  mentoree can mail and request a new mentor.

The above is codified and put into a web page by yours truly, with a
suitable prominent link from Newsflash and/or the front page of
www.freebsd.org.  The web page will also contain a list of what
responsibilities the mentor aquires[1] and what is expected of a
mentoree (to spend his own time in preference to the mentors, and to
follow the basic set of guidelines for material submitted).

That's all there is to it, really - and I posted a draft of a web-page
with this in it to chat about two months ago.

[1] To reply to contacts from the mentoree in a reasonable time.  "I
don't have time now" and "I don't want to hear about you or anybody in
your family ever again" are also replies ;-) Usually, a committer
would also either reject or commit the mentorees code, and answer
questions that mentoree asks - as long as it isn't obvious that the
mentoree is using the mentor in preference to actually reading
documentation and trying him/herself.

> > Does this mean that I'm the only person that belive this would be
> > useful?
> 
> No, I think they're just waiting for you to implement this grand idea
> so that they can see you've grasped the subtle distinction between
> suggesting from the rear and leading from the front. :-)

I actually did what I thought was necessary to make it work quite some
time ago, posted it to -chat, and got no response.  I'm quite willing
to write and commit the necessary documents as long as people
(committers/core) think this is something that should be done.  (I'll
take silence as a 'yes', this time, so now is your chance to protest
;-)

Eivind.



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