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Date:      Wed, 29 Mar 2000 03:38:17 -0500 (EST)
From:      Matt Heckaman <matt@ARPA.MAIL.NET>
To:        Didier Derny <didier@omnix.net>
Cc:        FreeBSD-STABLE <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: Let 3.x die ASAP?
Message-ID:  <Pine.BSF.4.21.0003290331400.99462-100000@epsilon.lucida.qc.ca>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.96.1000329080220.7123A-100000@omnix.net>

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Regarding SMP:

I have a dual PIII 550 on an ASUS P3C-D running 3.4-STABLE, the machine is
under **very** high load and has not had a single problem, I think that
the SMP problems reported might be misleading. Also, it is my understanding
that Linux has very poor SMP support.

I have to disagree about the stability going downhill, I started out with
FreeBSD on 3.1-release, and since then I have seen nothing but major
improvement along the version lines. 4.0 is wonderful for me, I have not
had a problem with it excepting the new IDE driver not liking a very old
hard drive of mine, but hey, the wd* drivers are still there.

Likewise, 3.4 is doing fine as well, working away happily on a very high
load machine without the slightest problem, happy as can be. I'm at a loss
to understand where your claims of newer FreeBSD being unstable come from.

Oh, RealPlayer 5 works for me on 3.4-stable and 4.0-stable, Oracle is
reported to work on FreeBSD under Linux emulation but I have not tested
that personally. Please, you owe it to yourself to do some good research
before making a choice.

Regards,
Matt

On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, Didier Derny wrote:

: Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 03:22:15 -0500
: From: Didier Derny <didier@omnix.net>
: To: Martin Cracauer <cracauer@cons.org>
: Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
: Subject: Re: Let 3.x die ASAP?
: 
: 
: why dont you call freebsd freebsd2000 freebsd2001....
: 
: freebsd seems running version after version and not stability...
: 
: I think that during 1994-1998 I made the right choice to choose FreeBSD
: instead of linux.
: 
: in 1999 (3.x) I was not so sure at all, no stability too many problems.
: 
: In 2000 it's getting worse, for me FreeBSD is not stable at all
: the future of FreeBSD is not so clear, version follow after version but
: I still have no support for my sound board, realplayer, oracle...
: The clients are telling me to install Linux instead of FreeBSD (for
: oracle)...
: I've just finished uprading the machines to 3.4-release and you are
: telling me that there is no future for 3.X...
: 
: I'm about to buy a smp machine but I see so many horror stories on
: the mailling lists that I'm not sure at all that I should use a smp
: machine (or install linux instead of FreeBSD)...
: 
: one of our client is running a smp machine with 3.2-BETA without any
: probleme...
: 
: another client is running 3.4-RELEASE and his machine is rebooting on
: heavy load...
: 
: with all these problemes the end of 3.x will probably be the end
: of FreeBSD for me!
: 
: --
: Didier Derny
: didier@omnix.net
: 
: On Tue, 28 Mar 2000, Martin Cracauer wrote:
: 
: > A bit of a controvesical question, for sure. 
: > 
: > I am so impressed with the results of upgrading my more important
: > machines to 4.0 or 4-stable that I could imagine not to produce any
: > more 3.x releases.
: > 
: > Let us consider what happens when we release 3.5 before or at the same
: > time as 4.1:
: > - People will publish reviews based on 3.5 instead of 4.1. As usual,
: >   an unadaequate number of them running on SMP machines.
: > - People will run into inferious hardware support, especially they
: >   will have trouble with large IDE disks and/or IDE PCI controller.
: >   Similar issues for Laptop users.
: > - People will continue to run with inferiour NFS, Linux emulator etc.
: >   The same applies to networking fixes against attacks, especially
: >   DOS.
: > - People will choose 3.5 over 4.1 and will later go through an
: >   3.x->4.x upgrade for no good reason.
: > - The remaining issues in 4.x (especially hardware) aren't addressed
: >   as fast. There will be some issues with "unclean" usage that the
: >   core userbase doesn't use that don't come up until the masses jump
: >   on them.
: > 
: > For me, the real reason is that I now hate the latest 3.x after seeing
: > the improvements. It is near to junk, IMHO.
: > 
: > Several machine of mine had gone instable while moving from 3.[01] to
: > 3.4-stable and I suspected hardware trouble. I didn't debug it because
: > I didn't want to mess with 3.x anymore. Now after upgrading to 4.x the
: > same machines are rock-stable again. It is my impression that the 3.x
: > branch lost the required testing when the core committers moved to
: > 4.0-current. Higher releases of 3.x are just not polished/tested
: > enough anymore, beside the undoubted concrete bug fixes.
: > 
: > Speaking of testing by committers, I also hate to have machines for
: > three branches running to develop bugfixes that apply to more than
: > -current. In fact my last 3.x machine (besides a 3.1 machine that
: > doesn't have the IDE troubles I have with 3.4-stable) is now a
: > production machine of my employer that I'd like to upgrade as well. I
: > couldn't think of a good reason to delay that upgrade for 3 or 6
: > months if my boss asked me. When i upgrade, I had to commit userland
: > bugfixes to 3.x with only testing them on a newer branch. Kernel
: > bugfixes would be impossible unless I find someone to test them for
: > me.
: > 
: > I assume that I'm not alone here. That many bug-fixing committers will
: > not move with 3 machines along the current branches and that 3.5 will
: > not be a worthy successor to our previous *.5 releases.
: > 
: > Opinions?
: > 
: > Martin
: > -- 
: > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
: > Martin Cracauer <cracauer@cons.org> http://www.cons.org/cracauer/
: >   Tel.: (private) +4940 5221829 Fax.: (private) +4940 5228536
: > 
: > 
: > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
: > with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
: > 
: 
: 
: 
: To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
: with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
: 

Matt Heckaman
matt@arpa.mail.net
http://www.lucida.qc.ca

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