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Date:      Thu, 29 Aug 2013 10:00:19 -0600
From:      Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
To:        John Baldwin <jhb@FreeBSD.org>
Cc:        FreeBSD Current <current@freebsd.org>, David Chisnall <theraven@freebsd.org>, toolchain@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org, "Sam Fourman Jr." <sfourman@gmail.com>, Boris Samorodov <bsam@passap.ru>
Subject:   Re: GCC withdraw
Message-ID:  <DC5B34F6-5303-4D2B-B480-74F0F0679EE3@bsdimp.com>
In-Reply-To: <201308291057.43027.jhb@freebsd.org>
References:  <20130822200902.GG94127@funkthat.com> <CAOFF%2BZ3vbOgMO7T-BKZnhKte6=rFoGcdYcft5kpAgNH2my1JKg@mail.gmail.com> <DC41B4BD-159A-408B-804A-0230F3E0E52B@FreeBSD.org> <201308291057.43027.jhb@freebsd.org>

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On Aug 29, 2013, at 8:57 AM, John Baldwin wrote:

> On Saturday, August 24, 2013 7:19:22 am David Chisnall wrote:
>> On 24 Aug 2013, at 11:30, "Sam Fourman Jr." <sfourman@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>>=20
>>> So I vote, let's not give ourselves the burden of "lugging" dead =
weight in
>>> base
>>> for another 5 years. (in 2017 do we still want to be worrying about =
gcc in
>>> base?)
>>=20
>> Perhaps more to the point, in 2017 do we want to be responsible for
>> maintaining a fork of a 2007 release of gcc and libstdc++?
>=20
> This is a red herring and I'd wish you'd stop bringing it up =
constantly.
> GCC has not needed constant care and feeding in the 7.x/8.x/9.x =
branches
> and it won't need it in 10.x either.  I have not seen any convincing
> argument as to why leaving GCC in the base for 10.x impedes anything.
> Because clang isn't sufficient for so many non-x86 platforms we can't
> really start using clang-specific features yet anyway.

Agreed. Gcc is still an absolute requirement on all non-x86 platforms =
(including arm) due to the issues with clang. Some of these issues are =
bugs in specific things (arm) that keep coming up (and keep getting =
fixed), while others are more severe (sparc64 has no clang support, and =
no way to generate a self-hosting system in the absence of a bootstrap =
gcc in the base, even with the external toolchain support).

gcc will absolutely be in the base for 10. That's the long-standing =
agreement that we've had, and breaking it now at the 11th hour is going =
to totally screw up !x86 platforms and really piss off a lot of =
developers for no good reason. The time is long since past to change =
this plan.

This is the plan of record, and we need to stick to it:

	10: clang default, where possible, gcc in base otherwise
	11: clang default, full external toolchain support, including =
self-hosting

So the time for voting and carping has long since past.

Warner=



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