Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 09:20:09 -0400 From: Michael Lucas <mwlucas@blackhelicopters.org> To: Eric Anderson <anderson@centtech.com> Cc: freebsd-doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Improved searching for FreeBSD.org web site Message-ID: <20020823092009.A39787@blackhelicopters.org> In-Reply-To: <3D663073.40604@centtech.com>; from anderson@centtech.com on Fri, Aug 23, 2002 at 07:54:11AM -0500 References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020822220010.00ab2540@pop.atomz.com> <20020823073410.B39333@blackhelicopters.org> <3D663073.40604@centtech.com>
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Eric, Personally, I apologize for missing your previous offer. I drop in and out of the -doc community as time permits, and just happened to catch this offer in between writing books. There's a tendency on the -doc team for people to assume that someone else is in charge, and I would guess that nobody felt that they had any authority to answer your original offer. That's extremely common on this list, unfortunately. I hoped that the "docmgr" team would fix that problem, but it seems that it hasn't. But that's a separate discussion. I've looked at sprawler.com, and it looks pretty decent. It certainly looks better than what we've got, and if someone's willing to feed it, great! Now the general issue: Guys, we can all speak. We can all answer these offers, even with just an echo reply. You might not be able to accept them on behalf of the community, but you can at least send back some sort of reply and give your opinion to get the discussion ball rolling. Or, do as I did and try to start an internal discussion. Trust me; if you give a bogus answer, someone will correct you. People who make these offers to free software groups are used to a touch of flappage. Not answering these sorts of offers makes people not want to give them. That's bad. I deliberately did not give my detailed personal opinion on the atomz offer in the previous message, as I was speaking with a different hat on. Here's my take on things as a -doc team member. First, my assumptions: 1) We need a better search system. The deficiencies in our current system are legion. 2) A big fancy system supported by an outside vendor who specializes in supporting and building search engines would be nice, but we *cannot* be dependent upon it. We cannot guarantee that any vendor, no matter how kindly disposed towards FreeBSD, will even exist in six months. (This is nothing against atomz, just a general comment; who ever thought that Walnut Creek would go through those convulsions?) Personally, I would like to see us do both. Our current system needs help or, preferably, replacing. There's a space for commercial support, however. Before we replace our existing system, though, I would like to see the following: a) what problem are we trying to solve? We know our current system sucks, but what are the problems? b) Does any proposed locally-managed replacement answer those problems without creating its own problems? ==ml On Fri, Aug 23, 2002 at 07:54:11AM -0500, Eric Anderson wrote: > Actually, I guess I'm a little bitter by this. I spent a lot of time in the > recent past working on a search engine replacement for FreeBSD.org, and even > asked for comments and suggestions on this list (http://www.sprawler.com for > beta testing). I also repeatedly asked how I can get it in a "test mode" kind > of set up to see how well people enjoy it, with NO RESPONSES. > > Now, some corporate web searching company decides to throw this in "as a nice > gesture", and everyone wants to flock toward it. The results looked less > relevant to me on the few searches I tried, and I don't like the interface as > much (of course, I'm biased). > > Heck, I'm offering to babysit the thing and keep it up to date (more than can be > said about the currently pathetic search engine on the site), and this company > is looking for a free advertising angle. > > Eric > > > Michael Lucas wrote: > > > [[cc trimmed for some hint of "internal" doc discussion]] > > > > <mwlucas puts on Donations Liason Office hat> > > > > Guys, > > > > What is the current consensus on our existing Web searching functions? > > > > I would like to at least give these folks some sort of answer, to > > encourage future contributions from corporations. > > > > If the consensus is that our web site is adequately indexed, we should > > tell them so. If the consensus is that our searching blows, we might > > want to take them up on it. > > > > My gut reaction is that we should offer this sort of service as an > > add-on to our existing search engine, and see how well it's accepted > > or appreciated by the user base. > > > > Comments? Criticisms? Other issues? > > > > To me, the important thing is that we give them an answer, one way or > > another, preferably from a senior doc person. > > > > ==ml > > > > </DLO hat> > > > > On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 10:19:22PM -0700, Mike Thompson wrote: > > > >>Hello, > >> > >>I don't know you have heard of us, but Atomz is one of the leading > >>providers of hosted web-native search and content management applications > >>delivered over the Internet. Since our founding in 1998, our services have > >>been powered by FreeBSD and we now have over 55,000 web sites using Atomz > >>hosted services. Companies that use Atomz hosted services include > >>Macromedia, Palm, Handspring, Maxtor, CBS News, Sony Playstation, Princess > >>Cruises, Kohler, U.S. Customs Department, Johnson & Johnson Lifescan, Red > >>Herring Magazine, and the list goes on and on. > >> > >>I wanted to offer the use of the Atomz search service for the FreeBSD.org > >>web site for free. I believe that this could improve the overall quality > >>of the FreeBSD.org web site and make it easier for people to find > >>information out about our favorite operating system -- FreeBSD. I put > >>together a quick example of Atomz Search for the FreeBSD.org web site at > >>the following URL: > >> > >>http://mike.demo.atomz.com/freebsd/ > >> > >>This example is searching about 2600 documents on the FreeBSD.org web > >>site. With a little more work we could search the entire email archives in > >>the same manner and the foreign language sections of the site. > >> > >>Because of the value at Atomz we have found in FreeBSD, I would make our > >>services available to the FreeBSD.org web site for free. We normally sell > >>our search service for $15,000 to $100,000 depending on the customer > >>requirements so I hope that you can see that this is a very powerful > >>service. I would also offer technical assistance from our company to > >>assist with making sure FreeBSD.org is getting a top quality implementation > >>of our web service. I would also be willing to offer our content > >>management system, Atomz Publish, as well if you think that would be useful > >>to the FreeBSD organization. > >> > >>In any case, I hope that this offer seems attractive. If you have > >>questions or would like to discuss this further, please contact me at > >>mike@atomz.com or by phone at 650-244-5602. > >> > >>Thank you for helping to support the creation of a wonderful operating system. > >> > >>Mike Thompson > >>CTO/Co-Founder Atomz > >>mike@atomz.com > >> > >> > >>To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >>with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message > >> > > > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Eric Anderson Systems Administrator Centaur Technology > The moon may be smaller than Earth, but it's further away. > ------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Michael Lucas mwlucas@FreeBSD.org, mwlucas@BlackHelicopters.org http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/q/Big_Scary_Daemons Absolute BSD: http://www.AbsoluteBSD.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message
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