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Date:      Tue, 07 Apr 2009 21:52:38 +0100
From:      Chris Whitehouse <cwhiteh@onetel.com>
To:        Matthew Seaman <m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk>
Cc:        User Questions <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: new package system proposal
Message-ID:  <49DBBD16.70204@onetel.com>
In-Reply-To: <49DAF4AF.4060104@infracaninophile.co.uk>
References:  <49D76B02.4060201@onetel.com> <20090404170401.c0f0bce0.freebsd@edvax.de> <49D789BD.7020103@infracaninophile.co.uk> <49DA7BF0.80403@onetel.com> <49DAF4AF.4060104@infracaninophile.co.uk>

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Matthew Seaman wrote:
> Chris Whitehouse wrote:
> 
>> You've suggested solutions to a couple of Polytropon's objections, 
>> thank you. Do you think there is anough mileage in my suggestion to 
>> make it worth putting in front of some ports people? What would have
>> to happen to take it forward? I could rewrite the proposal more clearly.
> 
> Any well-considered proposal is interesting, and suitable fodder for the
> freebsd-ports@... mailing list.  However you must be prepared for your 
> ideas to undergo some fairly rigourous critique by people who have spent
> a great deal of time in doing exactly the sort of operations you are 
> talking
> about.  It can be pretty daunting -- remember though that it is your 
> /ideas/
> that are being dissected: it's not a personal attack against you for having
> the temerity to try and suggest something.
> 
> Also, as ever in the FreeBSD world, code speaks louder than words.  It's 
> easy for anyone to come up with a proposal, hard to turn that into a 
> prototype
> that demonstrates the validity of your ideas.  Expect skepticism until you
> have done that. 
>> I suspect it would be easier to implement than freebsd-update, as a 
>> good deal of the infrastructure already exists, and would have similar 
>> benefits. To start developing it would require a ports tree and a 
>> selection of packages compiled from that ports tree. 7.2 Release is 
>> coming up. Maybe the ports tree plus packages from that would be a 
>> good place to start.
> 
> freebsd-update and portsnap existed only on Colin Percival's own machines
> for quite some time, and then they were made available through ports 
> before being accepted into the core system.  That is the usual sort of 
> progression
> for any major new system modifications.
> 
> The infrastructure may well exist, but don't assume that there is any spare
> capacity on it.  Getting time on the ports build cluster for running 
> experiments
> is not impossible, but it's somewhere way down the queue after the daily
> work of building packages for the FTP sites and testing the effects of bug
> fixes in the bsd.ports.mk infrastructure or important and highly 
> interconnected
> groups of ports like xorg or gnome.  Also, right before 7.2-RELEASE is 
> probably
> not the best time as that's when things are most hectic.  Right /after/
> 7.2-RELEASE would be better
> 
> I think your basic idea of snapshotting the ports tree at regular intervals
> and building a self-consistent group of desktop related applications is a
> pretty good one actually.  You need to work a bit on the details -- for
> instance, is it worthwhile rebuilding (say) the X libraries if there have
> been no changes to them since the previous snapshot?  Also, I'd take a good
> look at exactly how the PC-BSD and Desktop-BSD groups deal with this 
> problem.
> 
>     Cheers,
> 
>     Matthew
> 

All your points and your encouragement taken on board, thank you. I have 
a bit of spare time next week so I am going to work on this then

thanks

Chris



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