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Date:      Fri, 22 Aug 2014 09:12:45 -0400
From:      Paul Kraus <paul@kraus-haus.org>
To:        Scott Bennett <bennett@sdf.org>
Cc:        Trond.Endrestol@fagskolen.gjovik.no, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd@qeng-ho.org
Subject:   Re: gvinum raid5 vs. ZFS raidz
Message-ID:  <7971D6CA-AEE3-447D-8D09-8AC0B9CC6DBE@kraus-haus.org>
In-Reply-To: <201408220940.s7M9e6pZ008296@sdf.org>
References:  <201408020621.s726LsiA024208@sdf.org> <alpine.BSF.2.11.1408020356250.1128@wonkity.com> <53DCDBE8.8060704@qeng-ho.org> <201408060556.s765uKJA026937@sdf.org> <53E1FF5F.1050500@qeng-ho.org> <201408070831.s778VhJc015365@sdf.org> <alpine.BSF.2.11.1408071034510.64214@mail.fig.ol.no> <201408070936.s779akMv017524@sdf.org> <alpine.BSF.2.11.1408071226020.64214@mail.fig.ol.no> <201408071106.s77B6JCI005742@sdf.org> <5B99AAB4-C8CB-45A9-A6F0-1F8B08221917@kraus-haus.org> <201408220940.s7M9e6pZ008296@sdf.org>

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On Aug 22, 2014, at 5:40, Scott Bennett <bennett@sdf.org> wrote:

> Paul Kraus <paul@kraus-haus.org> wrote:

>> Take a look at the manufacturer data sheets for this drives. All of =
the ones that I have looked at over the past ten years have included the =
?uncorrectable error rate? and it is generally 1 in 10e-14 for ?consumer =
grade drives? and 1 in 1e-15 for ?enterprise grade drives?. That right =
there shows the order of magnitude difference in this error rate between =
consumer and enterprise drives.
>=20
>     I'll assume you meant the reciprocals of those ratios or possibly =
even
> 1/10 of the reciprocals. ;-)

Uhhh, yeah, my bad.

>  What I'm seeing here is ~2 KB of errors out
> of ~1.1TB, which is an error rate (in bytes, not bits) of ~1.82e+09, =
and the
> majority of the erroneous bytes I looked at had multibit errors.  I =
consider
> that to be a huge change in the actual device error rates, specs be =
damned.

That seems like a very high error rate. Is the drive reporting those =
errors or are they getting past the drive=92s error correction and =
showing up as checksum errors in ZFS ? A drive that is throwing that =
many errors is clearly defective or dying.

>     While I was out of town, I came across a trade magazine article =
that
> said that as the areal density of bits approaches the theoretical =
limit for
> the recording technology currently in production, the error rate =
climbs ever
> more steeply, and that the drives larger than 1 TB are now making that =
effect
> easily demonstrable. :-(

It took perpendicular recording to make >1TB drives possible at all.=20

>  The article went on to describe superficially a new
> recording technology due to appear on the mass market in 2015 that =
will allow
> much higher bit densities, while drastically improving the error rate =
(at
> least until densities eventually close in on that technology's limit). =
 So
> it may turn out that next year consumers will begin to move past the =
hump in
> error rates and will find that hardware RAID will have become =
acceptably safe
> once again.  The description of the new recording technology looked =
like a
> really spiffed up version of the magneto-optical disks of the 1990s.  =
In the
> meantime, though, the current crops of large-capacity disks apparently
> require software solutions like ZFS to preserve data integrity.

I do not know the root cause of the uncorrectable errors, but they seem =
to vary with product line and not capacity. Whether that means the =
Enterprise drives with the order of magnitude better uncorrectable error =
rate has better coatings on the platters or better heads or better =
electronics or better QC I do not know. So I don=92t know how mud this =
new technology will effect those errors.

--
Paul Kraus
paul@kraus-haus.org




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