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Date:      Sat, 28 Dec 2002 21:14:43 -0500
From:      Harry Tabak <htabak@quadtelecom.com>
To:        dever@getaclue.net
Cc:        freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Bystander shot by a spam filter.
Message-ID:  <3E0E5A93.4060108@quadtelecom.com>
References:  <3E0DAAF3.7090103@quadtelecom.com> <20021228130209.A79151@getaclue.net>

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Douglas A. Dever wrote:
> Previously, Harry Tabak (htabak@quadtelecom.com) wrote:
> 
>>	I recently discovered, and quite by accident, that a FreeBSD ported
>>package -- spambnc (aka Spambouncer or SB) -- was blocking mail from me
>>to an unknown number of businesses and individuals on the internet. I'll
>>probably never have to correspond with most of these people, but I'm a
>>freelancer -- this may have already cost me a job. [Dear reader, don't
>>be surprised if you or your clients are also blocked. I strongly suggest
>>that you check it out.]
> 
> 
> 
> Any server admin who chooses to use some sort of blocking list
> understands the risks involved - that clean mail may get rejected
> with the dirty.  If someone chooses to run a blocking list, they
> should be aware of the consequences of each list.  That said, once
> they decide to do so, they do not have to accept your mail - it is
> their server, after all.
> 

Not necessarily.  The implication in the literature is that the 
false-positive rate is low.

> 
>>	Basically, the default built-in policies for blocking mail aren't fully
>>described, and there is no mechanism to universally correct the
>>inevitable mistakes in a timely manner. Users (people who install this
>>product) are mislead about the probably of filtering the wrong mail. I
>>am sure that the software was developed with the very best intentions,
>>but in its zeal to block lots and lots of spam, SB is hurting good people.
> 
> 
> It sounds like your complaints need to be addressed to the
> maintainers/authors of this particular application.
> 
> 
>>	My tiny x/29 block is sub-allocated from my DSL provider's x/23 block.
>>    The DSL provider's block is a sub-allocation from Inflow.com's
>>66.45.0.0/17 block. Spambouncer doesn't like Inflow.  While they have a
>>right to their opinions, they don't have a right to publicly tar me
>>because of my neighbors.
> 
> 
> Or, you could choose not to do business with a company that supports
> spam.  That's the point of adding such large blocks to a blackhole
> list - to put pressure on the company to change its practices by
> affecting other customers.  No one is publically tarring you because
> of your neighbors - they're choosing not to accept mail from you
> because you keep bad company.
> 
> 

I do not do business with Inflow. I have absolutely no business 
relationship with them.  I do business with SteelCity Telecom. 
Black-listing me is simplying incorrect, it is based on a faulty 
assumption, and doesn't reduce spam one iota.

> 
>>	If I read sb-blockdomains # comments correctly, it is policy to not
>>only block known spammers, but to ALSO block entire networks based on
>>their handling of spam complaints. This is like as a business
>>receptionist checking callerID and then ignoring incoming calls from
>>Verizon subscribers because Verizon tolerates (and probably invented)
>>telemarketing.
> 
> 
> They're not the only people who do this.  SPEWS is notorious for
> this sort of thing.  That's why some folks like the SPEWS list, and
> others prefer the SBL or another realtime blocking list.
> 

SPEWS, www.five-ten-sg.com, and all the other RBL's that I can find have 
no problem with my addresses.

Harry Tabak



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