Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 09:32:08 -0600 From: jacks@sage-american.com To: Chip Wiegand <chip@wiegand.org>, Sue Blake <sue@welearn.com.au> Cc: keramida@FreeBSD.ORG, no_spam@worldpost.com, freebsd-newbies@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: arrgh squared Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020211093208.0195ca18@mail.sage-american.com> In-Reply-To: <20020211064205.24e276c0.chip@wiegand.org> References: <20020211215925.O60024@welearn.com.au> <000501c1b28b$fb806ae0$50cd7ad1@ljgms2k> <20020211010055.GB6999@hades.hell.gr> <20020211215925.O60024@welearn.com.au>
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When first-time installing FBSD, it would be a good idea to remove any extra hardware so that you start with an easier configuration. Then, once the OS is installed, then start adding back the hardware needed by priority of importance to the final objective for the machine. This approach would only apply IF there is a problem with the first tries to install. A good DOS background would help as well. If this is the first time to be confronted with a blinking cursor waiting for you to do something, that could be somewhat intimidating. But, perseverance is probably the best ingredient absent the help of a good friend nearby with some experience to help kickstart things for you. Perhaps because there seems so much to learn that it appears intimidating, but like the answer to "how do you eat an elephant?".... "one bite at a time" applies here. After each little "breakthru", helps inspire you on to the next aspect.... You'll be amazed how fast the knowledge accumulates over some dedicated time and effort. It is a powerful system well-worth the time and effort.... then you can move over from "newbies" to "questions" to help you through some other barriers that your own research fails to clarify.... the handbook is a terrific source, but may require reading and re-reading... and trial & error. At 06:42 AM 2.11.2002 +0000, Chip Wiegand wrote: >Wow, you make it sound so much worse than it really is. I was a newbie a >couple years ago, and managed to not only install and set up fbsd but >use it exclusively now (at home). I'm glad it wasn't as difficult as you >make it out to be. Sure it *can* be difficult to get certain aspects of >it going, but I think it depends more on your hardware than on luck. >Someone with a machine full of the latest and greatest hardware is going >to find it more difficult than someone with a machine a year or more old >with common hardware. You do make many valid points, I just think it is >a bit easier than you make it sound. At least that's been my experience, >after about two years and many installations and upgrades. :-) Well, >it's off to work now where I have to deal with a company full of >tempermental NT machines. Heh, Heh. > >Regards, >Chip W >www.wiegand.org >chip@wiegand.org > >On Mon, 11 Feb 2002 21:59:26 +1100 >Sue Blake <sue@welearn.com.au> wrote: > >> FreeBSD is as easy as any other OS to _use_. But you need a system >> administrator to set it up for you and maintain it. That's the basic >> idea. These days people expect to do everything themselves, and have >> good practical reasons for needing to. But that means you have to >> start with the most difficult part (install, setup) before you can >> begin to learn the easiest (using its programs and shell commands). >> >> Microsoft and Macintosh systems, by contrast, are designed to be >> used without a system administrator on tap. You don't get to choose >> much about how you want your system set up, because the OS assumes >> you don't know, and that you must be shown no options to confuse you. >> Rigid, predictable, user-installable. It's horses for courses. >> >> When I'm teaching someone, I start with a few easy commands and lots >> of concepts with much time spent treasure-hunt style testing out how >> the thing works (I can go 'cd /path/directory' but what would happen >> if I just went 'cd'?). It is a long long time before a large number >> of common shell commands are easy to run off the fingers. Much much >> later you're supposed to be able to do very easy admin things, like >> installing a CD package with /stand/sysinstall or pkg_add while >> referring to instructions. Much much later you can cope with more >> admin tasks before you get to the hard ones that the real sysadmin >> will do for you. And after a lot more time, you might get up to >> doing most or all of the admin tasks yourself. But installation >> and setting up a unix system, whoah, that's a whole other level >> higher. >> >> So here you are, madly trying to remember to type ls instead of dir, >> and you're expected to be able to install and configure a unix >> machine? Sure, it's _supposed_ to be hard! It's all back to front! >> What you "should" be doing is getting someone very experienced to >> fully set up your machine, and only then start learning things, >> in the proper order. But of course most of us can't organise >> that and of necessity we jump in at the deep end. If your hardware >> is pretty standard and you are able to follow the instructions >> without becoming snagged, guess what? It'll work, even though >> you're not a real sysadmin, even though you don't know what >> you're doing. It "just works" for lots of people. >> >> Not everyone, though, and if it doesn't work for you it's not your >> fault, it's just lack of extra good luck. Then you have to go ask >> about it on freebsd-questions. If you're real unlucky, you'll have to >> ask a few questions and learn a few things you didn't plan on learning >> so soon, before you get the $^%#%& thing running properly. Bummber. >> That's the way it goes sometimes. The first-time-lucky ones will boast >> (that's what this list is for too BTW) about how easy it is. There's >> hundreds of them, and we let them all have their moment of glory :-) >> but don't let that get you down. When your system is all the way you >> want it you can tell us you're a genius having worked through so many >> problems, and we'll celebrate with you, too. >> >> Just be careful not to create bad luck for yourself: don't ask any >> question where you might be misled. Helpful friends are real bad >> news in your situation. Ask _only_ on freebsd-questions, where any >> misinformation will be corrected by 2000 peers jostling for the >> status of being most correct. Your chances of being misled there >> (provided your question is worded OK) are pretty low, and right >> now you can't afford any doubts or wasted effort. >> Regards, >> -*Sue*- > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message > > Best regards, Jack L. Stone, Server Admin =================================================== Sage-American http://www.sage-american.com jacks@sage-american.com "My center is giving way, my right is in retreat; ....situation excellent! ....I shall attack!" =================================================== To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-newbies" in the body of the message
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