Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2020 16:47:54 -0600 From: Brandon helsley <brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> To: Steve O'Hara-Smith <steve@sohara.org>, Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de> Cc: freebsd-questions <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Minimal skills Message-ID: <CY4PR19MB0104540FF5E4FDF0B8D12370F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: <20200604225938.3baf5056ebd397f4a4acf81c@sohara.org> References: <20200604225938.3baf5056ebd397f4a4acf81c@sohara.org> <CY4PR19MB01041DACEFFEF08ADB096BC3F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <CY4PR19MB0104A2C03F4D66A1DA251A23F9880@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604005859.ca438474.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104C290121BF756D57B2DDBF9880@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604020051.0c02472d.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104DD86F8FE6446AD1BF327F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604074134.89eb6518.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104DC7541A2154B5C435EA7F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <CY4PR19MB01041DACEFFEF08ADB096BC3F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <CY4PR19MB0104A0D479219642A1853152F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604225938.3baf5056ebd397f4a4acf81c@sohara.org>
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>If you have IMAP support, you can even try / use multiple MUAs and see what works best for you, without requiring to have multiple mail accounts and program-individual local mailboxes. You can even use Thunderbird and alpine side by side, with Maildir local storage, connecting to an IMAP account - all this is possible and does not require complicated configurations. That's basically what I had wanted to do since I couldn't figure postfix out withal the mail components. What I am aspiring for is to set up all my three email addresses in a local mailbox like mbox or whatever. I still don't quite understand the components. It seems as though with an mua you can set this up. So then what is fetchmail and imap programs like dovecot for if an MUA works for this. Or can I only poll mail to a local mailbox in my directory tree somewhere with MTA? > > On Jun 4, 2020 at 4:33 PM, Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de> wrote: > > > On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 22:59:38 +0100, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 15:22:16 -0600 > Brandon helsley <brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > I'm doing the indentation myself. Does your mailer do the indentation for > > you or do you do it yourself? > > Many mailers know how to prefix and indent quoted material, many > even know how to re-wrap it when the indentation pushes line length > conventions. They also tend to know about the dash-dash-space-newline > signature break convention and strip signatures on reply. For example, my (older) version of Sylpheed does all this, except the signature, but it's no problem to manually remove it. In fact, it's absolutely no problem to "tidy up" a reply before sending, as it will show your respect and gratitude toward the list. By the way, this message is an excellent example of "multi-level" reply. Some MUAs even have multicolor support for this thing. :-) You can also see that people have different reply headers and form their replies in a different way, but nothing interferes with good readability. (See infront of "Many mailers" above: ">", space, remaining tab, first words - just as it should be.) It's also not a big deal if you decide to manually do the line breaks. I have a little ruler on top of the mail composer window so I can see, in a monospace font, what columns the text occupies. > Choice of mailer is every bit as personal and contentious as choice > of text editor - FWIW I use Sylpheed and vim because they've both failed to > irritate me much for many years now. If you have IMAP support, you can even try / use multiple MUAs and see what works best for you, without requiring to have multiple mail accounts and program-individual local mailboxes. You can even use Thunderbird and alpine side by side, with Maildir local storage, connecting to an IMAP account - all this is possible and does not require complicated configurations. I fully agree with Steve's statemen t that this choice is a very individual thing. Luckily, this is not a "once and for all times" situation, you can change your editor or mailer whenever your preferences or requirements change, without losing any data. It's even possible that you _will_ change programs as you advance and gain more experience, maybe feeling that the tools that you started with don't offer everything you need, so you begin using something else which is a better fit. By the way, several MUAs allow you to use an external editor, so if you say: I like the mailer, how it displays discussion threads and manages mailboxes, I just don't like its message editor - then you can simply use an external editor. Best of both worlds. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "fre ebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 4 23:24:52 2020 Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A13633641F for <freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org>; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 23:24:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.17.24]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49dMLq273fz4GfV for <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 23:24:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.5.236.150]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue108 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MiJdI-1j4v753tFm-00fRvs; Fri, 05 Jun 2020 01:24:46 +0200 Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2020 01:24:44 +0200 From: Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de> To: Brandon helsley <brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> Cc: freebsd-questions <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Minimal skills Message-Id: <20200605012444.05e0378a.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <CY4PR19MB0104540FF5E4FDF0B8D12370F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> References: <20200604225938.3baf5056ebd397f4a4acf81c@sohara.org> <CY4PR19MB01041DACEFFEF08ADB096BC3F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <CY4PR19MB0104A2C03F4D66A1DA251A23F9880@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604005859.ca438474.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104C290121BF756D57B2DDBF9880@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604020051.0c02472d.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104DD86F8FE6446AD1BF327F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604074134.89eb6518.freebsd@edvax.de> <CY4PR19MB0104DC7541A2154B5C435EA7F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <CY4PR19MB01041DACEFFEF08ADB096BC3F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <CY4PR19MB0104A0D479219642A1853152F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> <20200604225938.3baf5056ebd397f4a4acf81c@sohara.org> <CY4PR19MB0104540FF5E4FDF0B8D12370F9890@CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com> Reply-To: Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de> Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:zWk5m5//VRNT3cc/ypry6jQ92Js7Ctgqqz56z7BGq0jJSrAoVsD V72tLIX8bbs2iGuhS6Y6CSz4Kz8ADevJzgppBYiCTgUFZ9KY8ySfDE3Vp5yyFVTQl9i6fkH aUvzc5Dpusfdo1uN145kbdkJGUdgPkhqyDBOutfVFXU1fREZ5DZtIICyHpSZu20O16dbTww ZIOUHv+Mnz5bUIZPy8JnQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:Mgiog0/s9lg=:2GivpLlZtNYsLWZmmIzmzt EmiaAWTwtNLzSvmewbe7guNMebRs4pSzuDnJ3rlkSsqCqy9wp/dLX4lSp51nlnFfSYn6MqSfK qV4rBG5I4ossj8zBavY5QAuuyXByTf5Z9Jv7NTqzNvgc0EDh9qkOtxQlZ0HlGyKM+1e3RHKQR ZCl97n2DkRTp67KMuuZc/KsBKt9W/VgbA8VHDnk0Eu3hNHQ1bnEqhWN3T7WKwWc1qzS12asLQ KVg6WLSgsrAiXNZdV+mhhiQwPliIA5jj9js07m1Q5bkY1fhtUNhvDZJMb8bW/jt2cRTemXLcV x/2l9itoQgmVoNu+ebHLUlYF8j+SfM1usexgxUcgynG4qPI1dO3ZKmgVWRgjzR7x27+I3bvRj sON5287TPeuQB57/PRoZJIhEfMePhJN8pymDp90z/t1GwPeEvbzTjCPFDzvJE6whQxq0bAAps +2/Yw2mV7dijQdMJM8jYM1YbbQy05AS5Go1Pxdtbd6oUAbWqXyc87nH3WK2YQw97Rn00VMgO3 BYqPI8S8hlV7VjEb6oLmRpNqnXxpTWzaPOHWmm0OFpUEMbRXZxObqis1n0ZwNV5EP8KC/VmEJ lPfBWEM1w5PuTctGSDAZ96meXO47k50Ta+HkseGPsyjT4LHn24Ph5Z0/MQEWxiaPM7K06aMlJ QCIGOweMa4niiAx4s869TZdU3gk842qFOpHcFuhNvpKfynPftKqRwWpnmRK9xq+qLNgWiBKxN D3GMwbzSS4Hl2ucLtY1P+efCVGtTJ/tgQN6tTqYaNOyO93ZFECneDUT+s8CJYYXMKOJ1CQznu QMzgzFlzKOabtuhhg9y7TaoX9tTxNDeDyoG0GtynRzhMdcfA/Onfg5NzXDJUWKhF5YJZ6KfBB bjfswFRK9kEn0bggEmnw== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49dMLq273fz4GfV X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; 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RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions <freebsd-questions.freebsd.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/options/freebsd-questions>, <mailto:freebsd-questions-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/>; List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-questions-request@freebsd.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions>, <mailto:freebsd-questions-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2020 23:24:52 -0000 Sidenote first: I have reformatted your reply. It has, for a reason I can not understand, the quoting characters "> " only for the first line, but not on the subsequent ones, and the lines have an empty line in between. There is no header stating who you are quoting. Your lines do not conform to the "maximum line length" suggestion, but that's also not a problem as normal MUAs can deal with this just fine. I have also removed the remaining distorted message where all line breaks and spaces seem to have vanished... On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 16:47:54 -0600, Brandon helsley wrote: > > If you have IMAP support, you can even try / use multiple MUAs and > > see what works best for you, without requiring to have multiple > > mail accounts and program-individual local mailboxes. You can even > > use Thunderbird and alpine side by side, with Maildir local storage, > > connecting to an IMAP account - all this is possible and does not > > require complicated configurations. > > That's basically what I had wanted to do since I couldn't figure > postfix out withal the mail components. You don't need to run your own postfix installation for that; use can use the one that "hotmail.com" is providing - they have an IMAP interface. > What I am aspiring for is to set up all my three email addresses > in a local mailbox like mbox or whatever. I suggest using MailDir (derived from MH) which is the standard today. THunderbird and many others use it. As you can configure the path to local mailboxes, you can use them with several programs in parallel. > I still don't quite understand the components. It seems as though > with an mua you can set this up. Thunderbird is pretty easy to set up and configure properly. It can connect to IMAP accounts without any further tools, and it can cache messages in local mailboxes in MailDir format. > So then what is fetchmail and imap programs like dovecot for if > an MUA works for this. The MUA is the _user's_ side of the whole thing - the program the user interacts with to read, write, and sort messages. In your case, it's the K-9 app on your Android phone. The fetchmail program obtains messages from your account using POP3 or IMAP and stores them in a local mailbox. It's a tool to "get your messages". For example, I use fetchmail to get my messages from my account and have them in local mailboxes. It's used to receive messages. I need something else to send messages - this is done by my MUA. (It incorporates new messages from the local mailbox filled by fetchmail.) But as I said, this is not needed (!), and maybe not even desired given the convenience and flexibility of IMAP (often built into the MUA). And dovecot is the counterpart for tools like fetchmail: it runs on the server fetchmail connects to. You have a typical client-server-setting here. In relation to mailing, you can make yourself familiar with the different acronyms, their meaning, program examples, and what they do ("sends message to an incoming server", "puts message into a user's mailbox on the server", and so on). > Or can I only poll mail to a local mailbox in my directory tree > somewhere with MTA? With a MUA (NB: U!) like Thunderbird or alpine, this is done automatically when you have set up your account connection as IMAP and poll for new messages. You don't need to manually involve a MTA such as postfix here. The MTA is responsible for sending your message to the desired recipient. Mail handling involves a few more agents, I know, but I wanted to simplify this a bit, and I didn't even talk about spam filters, virus scanners, signing, certificates, trust and all the other things... ;-) You can find more information here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_agent_(infrastructure) The different components are covered here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_user_agent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_submission_agent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_transfer_agent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_delivery_agent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_retrieval_agent Covered agents cannot be detected. ;-) What you should get running first is a MUA. Everything else is already handled by your provider "hotmail.com". -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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