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Date:      Thu, 7 Jun 2007 05:16:05 -0400
From:      Kris Kennaway <kris@obsecurity.org>
To:        Alexander Leidinger <Alexander@Leidinger.net>
Cc:        Kris Kennaway <kris@obsecurity.org>, cvs-all@FreeBSD.org, ports-committers@FreeBSD.org, Eric Anholt <eric@anholt.net>, Pav Lucistnik <pav@FreeBSD.org>, cvs-ports@FreeBSD.org, Mark Linimon <linimon@lonesome.com>
Subject:   Re: cvs commit: ports/x11/libX11 Makefile distinfo manpages pkg-plist ports/x11/libX11/files patch-src_ImUtil.c
Message-ID:  <20070607091605.GB22049@rot13.obsecurity.org>
In-Reply-To: <20070607102229.98t8ak5kmoo8woco@webmail.leidinger.net>
References:  <200706061625.l56GP3lo043614@repoman.freebsd.org> <20070606200421.GA5453@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1181165084.76200.1.camel@ikaros.oook.cz> <20070606214112.GB6716@rot13.obsecurity.org> <1181173452.30365.20.camel@vonnegut> <20070607014450.GA17218@rot13.obsecurity.org> <20070607015538.GB23820@soaustin.net> <20070607102229.98t8ak5kmoo8woco@webmail.leidinger.net>

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On Thu, Jun 07, 2007 at 10:22:29AM +0200, Alexander Leidinger wrote:
> Quoting Mark Linimon <linimon@lonesome.com> (from Wed, 6 Jun 2007  
> 20:55:38 -0500):
> 
> >On Wed, Jun 06, 2007 at 09:44:50PM -0400, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> >>The FreeBSD project does not have the resources (or desire) to effectively
> >>do full-time incremental X.org release engineering because of X.org
> >>changes being continuously pushed into ports.
> 
> Who decides what is going in and what not? What changes are allowed to  
> go in and which aren't (read: what's the definition of "important"  
> here)?

"Fixes an application crash" or "Fixes a security vulnerability" would
be good reasons.  "Fixes some manpage typos" or "Adds a new cursor
theme" or "Adds some linux-specific cruft" would not be :-)  I don't
want to have to be the guardian of this myself so I hope the x11@
mailing list will self-regulate with a bit of guidance.

Basically everyone needs to be aware that commits to x.org core ports
(those in the dependency path of xorg-libraries, basically) need to
come with a clear justification of why the update is required, so if
you are prepared to defend yourself with solid arguments on that point
then you probably have a reason to proceed.

> >The last I checked, i386 package builds take ~5 days, amd64 take ~7 days,
> >sparc64 take more than 3 weeks.  If we push point releases any faster than
> >these dates, we will never have current packages.  I think this would be
> >a serious mistake.
> 
> 4 weeks would be still too fast for changes to X11 ports, I assume.

That kind of timescale should be manageable.

> >I've spent a lot of time looking at why packages are so far behind the
> >ports and the deep dependency trees are the major part of the problem.
> 
> So switching to recording explicit dependencies only would give a  
> speed improvement in this case (why shall we rebuild an application  
> which depends on some gnome libs but doesn't make some X11 API calls  
> directly, the package will not change significantly)?

Sometimes a port doesn't care when a dependency changes, sometimes it
does - how do you tell those two cases apart with 100% accuracy?  I
don't think you can.

Kris



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