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Date:      Sat, 14 Sep 2002 10:49:28 -0700 (PDT)
From:      Matthew Jacob <mjacob@feral.com>
To:        current@freebsd.org
Subject:   FreeBSD 5.0 as a desktop 'failure' report
Message-ID:  <Pine.BSF.4.21.0209140940100.40126-100000@beppo>

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I spent, on and off, 10 days trying to replace my current -stable
desktop/test machine with a -current one- I've now given up and gone
back to -stable, but my experience/needs may not be typical.

1. First 'problems'- installation funnies

The *relatively* easy part was to install from the DP1 CD ROM image.
That is, the installer is the same as it always has been- mostly works
pretty good.

The first desktop system I tred this on was a 400MHz 440LX+ system (20GB
ATA disk based, fxp onboard, but an ATI RAGE 128 as an add in graphics
card).

The first install failed because the BIOS and FreeBSD couldn't agree on
disk geometry. Then I laid the disk out with inadequate space in /usr
partition- my 'pilot' error really.

The second install went much better. After cvs updatining ports and src,
I was able to get a buildworld/installworld done w/o problems. However,
the kernel I built out of sources as of about the beginning of last week
would never finish boot probing. After trying multitudes of combinations
of disabling ACPI loading, AGP loading, updating, etc., I guessed that
it might be because I had, essentially, 2 VGA cards (there was no way to
disable the onboard VGA- but the BIOS allowed you to choose whether you
would use the PCI or onboard as the system display).

Because I really want my desktop to have a decent card, I discarded the
LX system (now to possibly become a bench test system) and went to
another system.

2. Second 'problems'- more h/w fun && games

I swapped in a a 667MHz PIII Dell Latitude. That worked peachy, *except*
that the RocketPort card and USB enabled would wedge the machines. Tra
La- more PC fun and games- disabling USB worked here..

3. Third 'problems'- but I need *graphics*

I felt I was ready to rock && roll at this point... *but*... No window
system was on DP1, so I would have to use ports to get one...

Hmmm- pkg_add -r of XFree86_4 got bus errors and core dumped. Okay!
Well, let's *build* it.... that worked.... took a while, but worked..
.....Far out- XFree86 correctly sized the monitor and gave me a
1920x1440 desktop -swell!

But we need a window manager- let's build gnome2! That worked- but,
haha, gnome2 refused to run because it failed to be able to do NFS
locking on my NFS mounted (on a Solaris 8 server) home directory. Oh,
well that's really not going to cut it now, is it.... Oh, well, let's
live with plain sawfish until we sort this one out...

4. Killer 'problem'- *sputter*...

So- this had been my desktop/lab-controller system- that is, my desktop,
*plus* a RocketPort 8 to control serial consoles for a bunch of bench
machines next to my desk.

In 5.0-current, the rp driver is unable to sustain 9600 baud of input
w/o dropping at least 25% of the input characters. That made the system
unusable for the purpose I'd been (easily) using it before.

When I put this together with the fact that I had now spent over a week
trying to get my desktop back (in the interim I'd been using a Linux
RH7.3 install over in the corner)- I decided to punt and drop back to
RELENG_4. After a day of foollng around, I'm back to a fully functional
FreeBSD system as my desktop.

5. Discussion

Now - the week of time is not really a week of time *devoted* to
installing 5.0. It was a week of trying to get work done and
interleaving that with maybe 20% duty cycle of moving various
installation issues along with my 'previous' deskstop system.

But this is what people in the real world do- they have to get work done
and any admin task that they have to do and can't spin off to some lab
grunt that takes longer than a couple of hours is going to get that kind
of attention- and the product will get short shrift if the effort and
time ends up being wasted.

I could have done a more formal test here- but Murray had asked us to
please *try* 5.0 as our desktop at least (as opposed to the server stuff
which I've been doing all along)- so I decided to oblige him and give it
a whirl, as a casual customer, say- with disappointing results.

I believe that I didn't have really broken or odd hardware. The
RocketPort may be a bit unusual- but the booting issues with a 440LX+
really shouldn't have happened. 

I suppose that by the time 5.0 makes it a CD for a real release, there
will be a fully functional window system- but the lack of an ability to
right now, have something 'just work' -even if *suboptimally*- makes
this something for the "Not Recommended' CR category.

Now- I'm just mentioning this as my experience- I'm not mailing this to
start a big flame war- if everyone wants to say that my experience was
just an edge case, that'd be fine. I feel I've done due diligence to
*try* 5.0 as a desktop: It's not ready for me at least.


-matt



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