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Date:      Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:34:34 -0800
From:      Mel Flynn <mel.flynn+fbsd.questions@mailing.thruhere.net>
To:        freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Cc:        Adam Vande More <amvandemore@gmail.com>, Andrew Gould <andrewlylegould@gmail.com>, Freminlins <freminlins@gmail.com>, PJ <af.gourmet@videotron.ca>
Subject:   Re: 7.2 RELEASE ? Buggy as hell
Message-ID:  <200907301634.34562.mel.flynn%2Bfbsd.questions@mailing.thruhere.net>
In-Reply-To: <eeef1a4c0907301550x174d83ceq5ab28c0e5bd10989@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <4A71F561.2050103@videotron.ca> <200907301308.01035.mel.flynn%2Bfbsd.questions@mailing.thruhere.net> <eeef1a4c0907301550x174d83ceq5ab28c0e5bd10989@mail.gmail.com>

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On Thursday 30 July 2009 14:50:07 Freminlins wrote:
> 2009/7/30 Mel Flynn
> <mel.flynn+fbsd.questions@mailing.thruhere.net<mel.flynn%2Bfbsd.questions=
@m
>ailing.thruhere.net>
>
> > You should really be using PCBSD if you want a packaged desktop system,
> > for which the developers claim responsibility and for which much (if not
> > all) of
> > the configuration has been done for you.
>
> I disagree with that. It even says on the FreeBSD web site "FreeBSD=AE is=
 an
> advanced operating system for modern server, desktop...".

The key is that the Xorg software is *not* part of FreeBSD. It may work, it=
=20
may not. A FreeBSD release is shipped with the intention that all software =
in=20
base and kernel are "working by default" and if it's not, the FreeBSD=20
developers claim responsibility for fixing it. The line is gray where it co=
mes=20
to X11, yet it's still a line.

> I have used FreeBSD on the desktop for about 6 years (but not yet running
> 7.2). It has mostly been a pleasure. I didn't like it when X was changed =
to
> individual packages, as it now takes considerably longer to install. And
> the output from pkg_info takes correspondingly longer to search through. =
It
> also installs two scripting languages (Perl and Python). I haven't had a
> problem configuring X for years.

I never claimed that FreeBSD can't be used on a desktop, I've been doing th=
at=20
since 4.7-RELEASE. Whether you and me can do it, is not up for dispute. Wha=
t=20
is, is that bugs are attributed to 7.2-RELEASE, which are all bugs in 3rd=20
party software and should be reported to ports@, with proper information if=
=20
people care about those problems getting fixed. Even then it may be out of =
the=20
hands of those volunteers, if it relies on propriety software of which the=
=20
developers have expressed no interest to support FreeBSD (like flash).

> If something has changed which then causes problems to end users, then th=
at
> is not good. And it's no good telling people "use PCBSD" or something els=
e.
> That's not what we want. We want to use FreeBSD on the desktop.

And we are. It's not for everybody and PCBSD is a FreeBSD desktop system=20
specifically created for people that don't want to do all the configuring a=
nd=20
troubleshooting that may come with installing a desktop system. PCBSD is=20
=46reeBSD (the latest major version -STABLE), with extra effort to make thi=
ngs=20
easier and people claiming responsibility for a working graphical desktop.

> Don't try and put people off using FreeBSD. It would be much better to he=
lp
> them resolves the problems they are having.

As said above, PCBSD is FreeBSD. And for many, it is the best help one can=
=20
give. One must first learn to walk, if one wants to run.

Also, if you _really_ want things to change for *BSD, then you should acqui=
re=20
a group of people that are willing and able to fork Xorg, get rid of it's h=
al=20
and python dependency, repackage sensibly and do some proper release=20
engineering. Especially the latter is what is causing the problems of late.=
=20
Either that, or convince the Xorg people to do that.
=2D-=20
Mel



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