Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 23:18:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" <rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> To: karl@Mcs.Net (Karl Denninger) Cc: pete@RockyMountain.rahul.net, pete@kesa26.kesa.com, jbryant@argus.iadfw.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, pete@rahul.net Subject: Re: 4GB Drives - Another Hawk bits the dust after a a short 3 month flight; Loading NetBSD ! Message-ID: <199509030618.XAA16309@gndrsh.aac.dev.com> In-Reply-To: <199509030338.WAA05020@Jupiter.mcs.net> from "Karl Denninger" at Sep 2, 95 10:38:46 pm
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[Note I am not on this mailling list, do not drop me from the CC: rgrimes] >>> [My Micropolis supplier must be reading the mailling lists and noticed >>> I was pushing Seagates and gone and got me some SPA pricing :-) :-)] >> >> So it appears I have to take it to SeaCrate and get a replacement. Once I get >> it is it possible to switch up to a Micropolus? >> >> -pete > > Warning! > > I have had THREE Micropolis bearing failures on drives which are less than > one year old in the last 72 hours! When ever you present failure data like this please include full details, Ie, model number of the drive is a _minimum_ piece of data. Also unless you happen to have a failure analysis lab you are _assuming_ the noise you hear is a bearing failure, and it may very well be that the bearing has failed, but without the lab you don't know why it failed (contamination, over heating, design flaw, damaged during manufacturing, etc.) Given that 3 drives failed in a 72 hour period I would say, IMHO, this was a field induced failure (ie, something happened in comon to these 3 drives at the end users sight). It just has a horrible probablity of being much else with the little data given. Have these drives been phsically touched in the period 96 hours prior to failure? Ie where they moved from one chassis to another, where they in the same box even? Attached to the same computer? What has Micropolis had to say about this? Or have you even contacted them yet? > In that same period, NO OTHER DRIVE from other makers has given me trouble. Statistically insignificant data has been given again :-(. List manufacture and model and quantity and POH as a minimum set of data to form any type of statistical comparison. > I like the Seagate Hawk series, and the 'Cudas *IF YOU CAN KEEP THEM COOL*. The Hawk is okay, and already stated as my model of choice on a price/size/ performance/reliabity point at the 4G mark. The Barracuda is off the bottom of the scale given the ``KEEP THEM COOL'' requirement and the significant initial product failure rates from Seagate gave them a very bad name in many communities. Even though Seagate has corrected the head meltdown/media flake problem that sour taste remains in many peoples mouths. > The Barracudas are great drives, but if they overheat, they're toast. These > suckers run REALLY hot, so you need supplemental cooling (like an enclosure > with multiple fans designed for this stuff). All drives fail if operated outside of there environmental specification for an extended period, some drives fair better than others when operated outside of the temperature range. It is easy to get outside of the temp spec on a Barracuda drive without some very good cooling due to the heat dissapation of the drive. This is a recurring thread, already discussed to death in this or other freebsd mailling lists. > A typical PC mounting WILL fail due to overheating. Also true of many workstations, and infact true of just about anything that was not specifically designed to handle the heat dissapation of the Barracuda. SGI's official statement is ``don't put them inside the system boxes, but them in external enclosures''. AAC's official statement is ``don't use them at all''. > The Hawks run with about 30% less power, and throw about 30% less heat as a > result. They will run in a PC cabinet with no problems, assuming you pay > moderate attention to airflow. And spins at a 30% slower rate :-) :-) :-). > 4G Hawks are ~$1200, while the 'Cudas add another $200-300 to that price. > The primary difference is that the Barracuda is a 7200 RPM design, while > the Hawk is a 5400 RPM one. Your price points are at least 30 days old. I have approximately 300 units of ST15230N (Hawk 4G) at my disposal with a qty 1 price of $1100.00 + $4.00 insurance + $7.00 2nd day fedex + $5.00 COD to US locations ($1116.00 in your door). Quantity discounting starts at 5 units. Shipping and COD fee is independent of the quantity. Delta on wide drives should be <$100.00, but I don't have a ``current'' price on the ST15230W, last price puts it at $1250.00 > I never used to like Seagate, but since the Hawk and Barracuda intro, I've > become a convert. The only other drives I would consider after this are the > Micropolis "AV" series -- they are considerably higher quality disks than > the "non-AV" models. I am not a big fan of Seagate. I will use there drive models only after they have proven themselves in the field. The Hawk has, the Barracuda has defanitly not. Every drive manufacture can have lemon models, and/or bad lots. Everyone can make mistakes. Seems Seagate has made a lot of them over the years :-(. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD
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