Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2012 14:07:31 -0800 From: Jos Backus <jos@catnook.com> To: Ivo Vachkov <ivo.vachkov@gmail.com> Cc: Doug Barton <dougb@freebsd.org>, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Importing djb's public domain daemontools? Message-ID: <CAETOPp3WXQ_k80XE3H3bK4%2B9r_JO7a7fc08Kg8UGLeZjAkOy4g@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CADrMwxfUQSCABcosWig7j0DShbJZkB9oQO4Rz_6-TyVb4UeEyg@mail.gmail.com> References: <CAETOPp2Wcww1_fPonru0c6XoX%2BAV_HWoGZKiEMvmY50a5%2ByxRQ@mail.gmail.com> <4F14E291.5090803@FreeBSD.org> <CAETOPp1z0TJecz8kjDvf7trEOS5eogrcqEtDveUYzN=J-SvDNQ@mail.gmail.com> <4F1502CD.90409@FreeBSD.org> <E4B18E7A-74A1-4388-AD79-05DD3E667DAE@bsdimp.com> <CAETOPp0=6bgVQBWPzQc5QWGLwWtKF-yJEhDfx0pHnbstRH9UOw@mail.gmail.com> <CADrMwxfUQSCABcosWig7j0DShbJZkB9oQO4Rz_6-TyVb4UeEyg@mail.gmail.com>
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On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Ivo Vachkov <ivo.vachkov@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 11:33 PM, Jos Backus <jos@catnook.com> wrote: > >> On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 11:10 PM, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote: >> >> > >> > On Jan 16, 2012, at 10:10 PM, Doug Barton wrote: >> > >> > > On 01/16/2012 19:41, Jos Backus wrote: >> > >> On Jan 16, 2012 6:53 PM, "Doug Barton" <dougb@freebsd.org> wrote: >> > >>> >> > >>> On 01/16/2012 12:53, Jos Backus wrote: >> > >>>> >> > >>>> Thoughts? >> > >>> >> > >>> This is already available in ports. >> > >> >> > >> I realize that. >> > > >> > > Good, then we're done. :) >> > >> > Not necessarily... >> > >> > >> If FreeBSD had a solid solution out of the box, all this pidfile >> > hackery in >> > >> the base system wouldn't be necessary. >> > > >> > > We don't do religious wars here. We especially don't do trollbait from >> > > djb acolytes. The "pidfile hackery" that we currently have works just >> > > fine in the vast majority of cases. The fact that it doesn't meet some >> > > people's ideas of architectural purity is totally beside the point. >> > >> > This isn't a religious war. This is someone coming to us and saying >> that >> > it might be a good idea to clean up the mess by importing a tiny bit of >> > extra code into the base. Seems like how we've always done things :) >> > >> > >> I always thought FreeBSD was about >> > >> good engineering. Perpetuating the pidfile mess in the base is not a >> > sign >> > >> of good engineering. >> > > >> > > FreeBSD is about giving people choices. Those who want to use >> > > daemontools can do that. >> > > >> > > And lest people think that I'm just hating on daemontools, I'm not. I >> > > use it for some things. But converting everything in the base to use >> it >> > > is a non-starter, even if we wanted to import it, which I don't see >> any >> > > need to do. >> > >> > I'm not convinced it is a non-starter. I'd fully support Jos if he >> wanted >> > to commit the code and had done the leg work to do it. I wouldn't >> support >> > just importing the daemontools and leaving it at that. If that's the >> plan, >> > then leaving it in ports is the best bet. >> > >> > Let's not dismiss this out of hand. >> > >> >> Thanks, Warner. >> >> I'm perfectly willing to make an effort moving FreeBSD forward in this >> area once we can achieve consensus on what moving forward means. I don't >> care about the implementation so much as having the functionality >> available >> out of the box. Porting launchd sounds like a good plan. >> >> Jos >> >> >> > Wouldn't it be more logical to first: > 1) Define what a modern start/boot/service control system should do? > 2) Define technological and architectural constraints? > ... and only then jump to "port *this*" kind of discussions ... > > I know of at least one successful commercial project to port launchd on > FreeBSD (6.x and 7.x), but still there are also others: initNG, eINIT, > Upstart, Service Management Facility, etc. > > I don't want to start another flamewar here, i'm aware of license issues, > dead code, commercial issues and so on, I just want to point out that there > are other options and IMHO the focus should not be on what to port, but > what to develop that suits our needs. > If people feel that's the right thing to talk about first, by all means, sure. Jos > > > >> > Warner >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Jos Backus >> jos at catnook.com >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-arch@freebsd.org mailing list >> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-arch-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> > > > > -- > Ivo Vachkov > -- Jos Backus jos at catnook.com
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