Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 11:50:47 +0930 From: Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com> To: Darren Pilgrim <dpilgrim@uswest.net>, junkmale@xtra.co.nz, Bill Fumerola <billf@chc-chimes.com>, Donald Wilde <dwilde1@thuntek.net>, FreeBSD Documenters <doc@FreeBSD.org> Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: The FreeBSD Installation Guide Project [Was: Re: FreeBSD Adovcacy] Message-ID: <19990405115047.Q2142@lemis.com> In-Reply-To: <3706CA33.986B5C15@uswest.net>; from Darren Pilgrim on Sat, Apr 03, 1999 at 06:10:59PM -0800 References: <19990403191536.G2142@lemis.com> <19990404005224.CUBP5707006.mta2-rme@wocker> <3706CA33.986B5C15@uswest.net>
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I'm copying FreeBSD-doc on this. We should have done this long ago: this has less to do with advocacy than it does with documentation. On Saturday, 3 April 1999 at 18:10:59 -0800, Darren Pilgrim wrote: >> Darren, do not waver. Your stuff is needed. I'll help you any way I can. >> Whether you choose to go the handbook or whatever, IGP still needed. The >> best witness to that fact is the number of request we get on undernet >> #freebsd for help with installs. > > Given all the off-list offers and on-list discussion it's pretty > obvious to me that the IGP is sorely needed. I don't think anybody denies that. The discussion has been about how you should implement it, not if you should. > I'm going to see to it that the IGP goes through to compile a > no-assumptions guide. I've had a very long think about the Handbook > and incorporating the IGP with it and come to the conclusion that > while parts of the IGP probably could fit very well with the > Handbook, rewriting the Handbook is just not what I want to do. I find this sad. You'd get a lot more help and cooperation if you'd do it in the existing framework. If you go it alone, well, you go it alone. On Saturday, 3 April 1999 at 20:43:41 -0800, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > Bill Fumerola wrote: > <snip> >> Blah, blah, yadda, yadda. Instead of being a hero for the people try >> updaing the existing documentation. > <snip> >> If you want to duplicate work, by all means, put it on your own website >> and scream on the mailing lists "_MY_ work is better, go to >> http://foo/FreeBSD-better-handbook/". >> >> Just don't expect anyone to 'cvs rm' the handbook (which isn't bad at all) >> and import your newest brainstorm. > <snip> >> That would be because you are trying to replace an established work with >> your pipedream. > <snip> >> This may sound like a quote from a jkh post, but: I haven't seen anything >> tangible, just an "I don't like this", and when you've moved on to other >> things, the handbook will still be here. > <snip> > > This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Perhaps you'd > like to read my other comments and elaboration about the IGP? I'm not > trying to replace the Handbook. Despite what Bill says, I think you should be. There are lots of different styles in the handbook; putting in the IGP would be an enrichment. As I said earlier, that doesn't mean that it should not be possible to extract the IGP as a standalone document. On Saturday, 3 April 1999 at 20:58:59 -0800, Darren Pilgrim wrote: > Donald Wilde wrote: >> >> Re: your <RANT> >> >> One of the things you'll have to get used to is that anybody who stands >> up gets poked at, sometimes even by Project pillars like Jordan and >> Greg. Use it to stiffen your resolve, and don't let it dismay you. > > Aye, point well taken. But this is my first serious attempt, couldn't > yall have at least handed me a can of mace before throwing me to the > dogs? :-) Why should you get special treatment? :-) >> Stay the course, Darren. Talk to the -newbies and ignore the crabby, >> jaded ones who've forgotten what it's like not to have a clue about BSD. >> :-D > > I plan on soliciting for volunteers in -newbies. I just want to have > some kind of a webpage up for them to read before waving the Uncle > Sam posters. It seems fashionable at the moment to believe that newbies can do things that experienced people can't, simply because they're closer to the problem. I have yet to see a really successful document come out of this approach. I've found it a lot easier to let experienced people write the documentation and have newbies review it to death. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-doc" in the body of the message
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