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Date:      Sun, 20 Jul 2014 18:28:55 -0700
From:      Doug Hardie <bc979@lafn.org>
To:        Warren Block <wblock@wonkity.com>
Cc:        Andrew Berg <aberg010@my.hennepintech.edu>, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Freebsd-update to 9.3 from 9.2
Message-ID:  <A72AFB00-ED14-461C-A64E-F8C95552184A@lafn.org>
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1407201832480.85019@wonkity.com>
References:  <4CA0146F-BD4E-4613-9050-DB0C1FDB7EA4@lafn.org> <53C8B7A2.1060504@my.hennepintech.edu> <494D0D9E-ED60-4187-ABCF-8E18CDEAB911@lafn.org> <53C8E2A7.6000000@my.hennepintech.edu> <FD3DC529-BB02-4EE2-8F09-179125D832FE@lafn.org> <7154054C-47D0-454C-8601-3F17095476EC@lafn.org> <alpine.BSF.2.11.1407181659180.29137@wonkity.com> <066C2341-F26F-4817-B681-97119FB7EB7C@lafn.org> <alpine.BSF.2.11.1407190624090.26467@wonkity.com> <0A5E66FF-D8B0-4619-91AC-C99BC2AEA04D@lafn.org> <alpine.BSF.2.11.1407201211090.84953@wonkity.com> <0501F769-338A-4B23-AC7B-DBFC55C9387E@lafn.org> <alpine.BSF.2.11.1407201556030.48048@wonkity.com> <C2DBFFD6-303C-4D54-A850-D21C5D383F5E@lafn.org> <alpine.BSF.2.11.1407201832480.85019@wonkity.com>

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On 20 July 2014, at 17:54, Warren Block <wblock@wonkity.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 20 Jul 2014, Doug Hardie wrote:
>=20
>>> Is there anything else we can do to help make it more clear?  I =
don't mean to put you on the spot, just that I've found these types of =
problems often can be used to make valuable improvements in the =
documentation.  If you think of somewhere else it should be mentioned, =
or a better way to explain it, please let me or the freebsd-doc mailing =
list know.
>>>=20
>>=20
>> I would appreciate either examples or instructions with examples on =
how to setup and properly update a system using svn.  Those are the most =
common things admins do if they are not involved in the development of =
FreeBSD.  There used to be some good info on that in the handbook back =
when we used cvsup.  Think more tutorial and less man page constructs.  =
If I knew enough about the process, I'd try writing it, but so far most =
of the things I have tried have not worked.  Only one of the several =
systems I have tried to update to use svn and pkg still works.
>=20
> pkg is not involved.  I don't use binary packages, so someone else can =
address that.
>=20
> The problem with exact Subversion examples is there are numerous =
repositories and mirrors, so it's a factorial combination.  And we (or =
at least, I) have found that giving specific examples means people will =
use those examples verbatim, even if there is a warning not to do so.
>=20
> So, keeping that in mind...
>=20
>  Check out source for 10-stable from the western US mirror, first time
>  only:
>=20
>  # rm -rf /usr/src
>  # svn checkout https://svn0.us-west.freebsd.org/base/stable/10
>=20
>  The first time, Subversion will ask to accept a security certificate
>  fingerprint.  These are shown in the Handbook Subversion appendix.
>=20
>  To update that source later:
>  # svn up /usr/src
>=20
> That's it.  The process for ports is identical, just a different =
repository:
>=20
>  # rm -rf /usr/ports
>  # svn checkout https://svn0.us-west.freebsd.org/ports/head /usr/ports
>=20
>  And then update periodically:
>  # svn up /usr/ports
>=20
>=20
> The desire to avoid that repetition is why there is a generic =
Subversion appendix in the Handbook.  Still, we have a lot of repetition =
of Subversion instructions elsewhere.  There's a section in the =
Handbook. There's another in the Committer's Guide.  There's another in =
the FDP Primer.  Hence my idea to factor all that out and make our own =
Subversion for FreeBSD book.  My outline for it already has separate =
sections for end-user usage for ports, source, and docs.  However, it is =
one of many projects on the list.
>=20

I brought up pkg because both it and svn were introduced at about the =
same time.  Thus completely breaking the model we have used for =
maintaining systems for over 10 years.  Its been a bit difficult.

On the documentation, the above appears fine.  I would include examples =
on how to upgrade OS to new version.  I don't think I would remember the =
commands I used earlier, especially as I try to keep upgrades to once a =
year.  System downtime is a real hassle for my users.  I would not =
recommend putting that in a separate document though.  The handbook =
should have it all.  I have never heard of the Committer's Guide or the =
FDP Primer.  I've never seen a reference to them before and sure would =
not have check there.





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