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Date:      Tue, 27 Jan 2009 23:36:22 +0100 (CET)
From:      Wojciech Puchar <wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl>
To:        Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de>
Cc:        Eduardo Cerejo <ejcerejo@optonline.net>, FreeBSD-questions@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: KDE: What a monster!
Message-ID:  <20090127232455.X18824@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl>
In-Reply-To: <20090126150019.387d538b.freebsd@edvax.de>
References:  <20090123191547.fd43d651.ejcerejo@optonline.net> <20090125022647.6b379fed.freebsd@edvax.de> <20090125144428.B44198@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> <20090126150019.387d538b.freebsd@edvax.de>

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>
> On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 14:53:51 +0100 (CET), Wojciech Puchar <wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> wrote:
>> fortunately it's only tendency to "trendy" software like KDE. not for all
>> unix software.
>
> But sadly for the most software that is used for real productivity,
> such as media players, programming environments, or even web browsers
> and mail clients.

"programming environment"? what do you mean?

unix itself is THE BEST (tm) programming environment i've ever seen, with 
most powerfull project manager called make(1), plus LOTS of tools to 
automatize most of other things.

of course - not everybody likes to "waste" few hours to fully understand 
things, get "cool" "trendy" "programming environment" and then waste few 
hours every day.

classic unix programs as so flexible that it's often usable for things 
they were not supposed to.

For example - i use make and C preprocessor to make webpages :)

instead of all this .css i use headers where i define all colors font 
sizes etc.

i want to change colors on all pages - just one line in one file
and run make

>> same or faster every release on THE SAME machine!
>
> Exactly, that's why I'm such a happy FreeBSD user, or, to be honest,
> HAVE BEEN, because I think... well, sometimes I could crash the
> stupid box against the wall because things that worked well years
> ago when I setup the system with "old" software aren't possible
> with "modern" software anymore, and that's a thing I cannot

so why don't you revert to old software?

> believe. Evolution is good, but what if it's not only about
> adding, fixing and optimizing things, but making things impossible,

why do you use evolution? i installed it once, started once and after 
being shocked how crappy it is i deinstalled it.

text mode mail clients are the best, like mutt, alpine etc.

there is not a problem if you like to view attachments, just define a 
graphic viewer in alpine etc..

> 	Hardware
> 	--------- = speed++
> 	FreeBSD--
>
> And yes, I think I could notice the speed improvement in the
> past. Improvements in performance and startup speed are always
> welcome, allthough they're not a major issue to me. As long
> as it works flawlessly in general, I'm happy. :-)

with FreeBSD you get both.

>> it's not unix problem. it's problem of people that like to have their unix
>> be "like windows" so it is :)
>
> I cannot imagine one (!) reason why I would like to have my UNIX
> to be like "Windows", I'm happy it NOT like "Windows". :-)

me too, but ask others why ;)

>> what exactly software you rebuild and found slower (except KDE/Gnome
>> bloatware) ?
>
> You're inviting me to complain. :-)
>
> Before I will start, I may say that I often heared that "KDE is
> an excellent development platform", so I tried it out,

from whom ? :) KDE is unless

> especially because of KDEvelop which I found quite interesting
> (running it without KDE). KDE and Gnome are simply too much
> for my machine - end for me. So much stuff I don't need and

believe me, there are NO BETTER development platform than standard unix 
tools

> First I found that compiling lasts much longer. I know that the

yes gcc gets slower.


anyway - i don't compile kernel and FreeBSD every day.

something like every year is closer.

> And burncd doesn't work on my CD/DVD recorder anymore, but
> I have already made the switch to ATAPICAM oriented programs
> such as cdrecord and cdrdao.

i already did the same. i don't even have atapicd driver in kernel

> Now for X. The startup of X has been "improved" over
> the startup of XFree86. It now lasts almost 10s from "startx"
> to X. Launching WindowMaker needs no more than 1s of this
> time. But sadly, X cannot run 1400x1050 anymore. Autodetect

X -configure
then edit xorg.conf manually. that's all.

> others on that list: Whenever I switch to textmode and then
> back to X, the content of the edit buffer (that what you select
> with the left button and output with the middle button)
> gets output at the window where the mouse is! So if it is

to tell you the truth i don't switch to textmode. i found my own "desktop 
enviroment ;)" much better, with switching desktops defined in ALT-F*, and 
by default having xterm running full screen, and all window frames, 
decorations and buttons disabled.

so xterm looks like true text console. except i can run X clients from it.



well you wrote so much i would need to spend a bit time to read it all.




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