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Date:      Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:03:44 +0900
From:      Kazutaka YOKOTA <yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp>
To:        Ryan Thompson <ryan@sasknow.com>
Cc:        freebsd-current@freebsd.org, yokota@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp
Subject:   Re: 4.0-20000307-CURRENT kern.flp keyboard probe questions 
Message-ID:  <200003110203.LAA11344@zodiac.mech.utsunomiya-u.ac.jp>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 10 Mar 2000 18:58:16 CST." <Pine.BSF.4.21.0003101843100.8418-100000@ren.sasknow.com> 
References:  <Pine.BSF.4.21.0003101843100.8418-100000@ren.sasknow.com> 

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>> >And, if not, could
>> >the loader at least not display a message on the local monitor like
>> >"Switching output to serial console...", or better yet, "Switching output
>> >to serial console in 10 seconds.. press any key to abort"?
>> 
>> Which key do you mean?  The system has found no keyboard, you know :-)
>> 
>> Kazu
>
>Exactly... My suggestion resembles the common BIOS boot message from days
>of old:
>
>	Keyboard not found.  Press [F1] to continue.

The PC BIOS prints "Press [F1] to continue" for ANY error detected
during POST.  I found it damm stupid.

As I wrote in another posting, the keyboard interface on the PC
motherboard is not designed for hot-plugging/unplugging.  And I don't
think the BIOS is expecting you to attach the keyboard without turning
off the system in the above situation.

You may say it works.  But, I can say, with confidence, it is not
generally the case with the average PC motherboard.  I strongly object
to the idea to put some logic or message to actively "encourage" users
to hot-plug the keyboard.  That will certainly lead to breakage of
many motherboards.

If the user hot-plug the keyboard, knowing involved risks, that's
his problem; he is expected to know what he is doing and is prepared
to accept the risks.

It's indeed inconvenient that you cannot safely hot-plug the keyboard.
And the world is heading for the USB standard... :-)

Kazu

>The novice reads, laughs out loud, and wonders if the joke is really on
>them.  After all, how COULD they press F1 if a keyboard does not exist?  
>
>The expert checks his/her keyboard connection, (or plugs a keyboard in)
>and, indeed, hits F1 to continue.  BIOS programmers have been doing it
>for about two decades.  Why not the FreeBSD boot loader? :-)
>
>My idea is a similar one.  Have the boot loader (with a reasonably
>configured timeout--we don't want to wait indefinitely) display a similar
>message (perhaps with copious beeping), giving the busy sysadmin a chance
>to switch keyboards, or at least notice that a keyboard was not detected.
>
>If I install FreeBSD on multiple systems, I might throw boot disks in a
>dozen machines so I don't have to wait for each one.  I come around with
>my $370 keyboard later to start the actual installs over NFS.  I call it
>'pipelining' :-)










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