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Date:      Sat, 9 May 2020 14:06:03 +0200
From:      Polytropon <>
To:        satanist <>
Subject:   Re: Microsoft Teams for Linux
Message-ID:  <>
In-Reply-To: <0d05d7a2b8c8943b@hell>
References:  <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <0d05d7a2b8c8943b@hell>

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On Sat, 09 May 2020 11:11:05 +0200, satanist wrote:
> [2020-05-08 18:53] Jerry <>
> > You claim you want better support, yet you obviously have little or no
> > desire to pay for it. Screaming at a vendor, "We want more free stuff."
> > is probably not going to endear you to anyone. Someone has to pay the
> > bills.
> [...]
> I couldn't find the page to order a specialized client and I don't get
> why I need one. For conferencing you can perfectly use SIP/VoIP, for
> streaming there is HLS and some other protocols.

The key here is a "one size fits all egg-laying wool-milk-sow" kind
of application. You don't select the best tool for each job, instead
you take a tool that has "all jobs" in it, implemented more or less
poorly or at least acceptable. You do this because your higher-ups
say so, as they consulted external "experts" for $$$ who are now
very thankful as they have a long running service contract. :-)

In order to participate in a party that happens inside a walled
garden, you need access to that garden, and you do so by paying,
with money or with data, it essentially doesn't matter. If you
refuse to do so - NO SOUP FOR YOU.

> So why do I need a js
> blob which only works on chrome or a binary build only for Windows and
> Linux to use MS Teams or Zoom? I just want to have the freedom to
> choose my software.

You don't have that choice anymore as soon as you selected a
specific platform or software ecosystem. You are always free to
give up the ability to choose. That's freedom to, except of course
it's the last act of freedom.

> So if someone offer an service, the bare
> minimum[2] should be to support standard browser.

Sadly, there is no "standard browser" anymore. Along with HTML
support which can vary, there are varying degrees for the certain
implementations or levels of CSS, as well as for JS (which is _the_
primary force behind any "modern" web site today). Libraries are
sourced from 3rd, 4th, 5th, ... nth parties, turtles all the way
down, and the browser is expected to render everything pixel-perfect
as if it was in print media. The browser abstracts things that the
OS and its subsystems are responsible for (like hardware access
to get a microphone and camera signal), but there isn't a full
consensus of how this should happen: different libraries use
different approaches, and browsers support them in different ways.

You have a "federal patch carpet". ;-)

> The hole ``cloud'' business model drives me crazy. You don't create a
> protocol, write a client and a server anymore. You write a server with
> a private API, an app and maybe a website. Then sell this as service or
> make it free with adds for personal use. With this model I'm totally
> locket in to the vendor.

Exactly that _is_ the business model. It's like drug addicts who
get their first shots for free, but then cannot say no anymore.

Even worse, if the vendor closes shop, it's quite possible that
you lose your data, or you lose your whole business in case that
specific service was an essential component.

> I have no way to replace any part of the system
> without going to a completely different service. Using a different
> service is in some cases not even possible.

Yes, that's what keeps the software industry alive, as well as their
parasites in the consulting area. "We recommend you register for this
service, and we provide a service for this service." Do you remember
the time when interoperability, compatibility and data exchange across
heterogenous systems was the norm? Today there are "walled gardens",
beautiful on the inside, but hostile as soon as you want to leave.

A specific case for "not even possible" applies in cases where you
are legally forced to interact with governmental administration in
a specific way, using a narrow set of programs provided which are
only available for a narrow set of operating systems. You are forced
to buy specific things and obtain licenses (again, you pay for it),
in order to do what they force you to do. There is no way you can
do it in any other way because there in fact is no other way. Of
course they claim "so simple" and "now easy" and "for free", but
the truth is the exact opposite.

Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...

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