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Date:      Wed, 28 Jan 2009 04:29:54 +0100
From:      Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de>
To:        Wojciech Puchar <wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl>
Cc:        Eduardo Cerejo <ejcerejo@optonline.net>, FreeBSD-questions@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: KDE: What a monster!
Message-ID:  <20090128042954.90cdb848.freebsd@edvax.de>
In-Reply-To: <20090127234024.Q18824@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl>
References:  <20090123191547.fd43d651.ejcerejo@optonline.net> <20090125022647.6b379fed.freebsd@edvax.de> <20090125144428.B44198@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> <20090126150019.387d538b.freebsd@edvax.de> <20090127234024.Q18824@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl>

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On Tue, 27 Jan 2009 23:58:11 +0100 (CET), Wojciech Puchar <wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl> wrote:
> do you have opera 7 package somewhere? i would like to downgrade.
> yes it got very bad.

I think I have a working Opera 7 installation on my old-fashioned
laptop (FreeBSD 5), and if I've got the /usr/ports tree still there,
maybe I can "make package"? It's just the question if the defective
hard drive (sounds like a chainsaw, since it came from the factory
already) lets me do this... I'll try and notify you about the
results.



> with my fvwm2 config i simply press CTRL+right mouse click to close 
> window:)

Hey, good idea! I think Alt+PF4 works (as default) on most
window managers (it does in WindowMaker at least). In
GeoWorks Ensemble, you could close a window with PF3.



> the best browser i've seen is links (graphics mode). excellent font 
> rendering, excellent speed, but unfortunately quite limited HTML 
> processing.

I didn't know links had agraphics mode... time to checkt this
out!



> well i have laserjet 4 and use ghostscript+lpr. can't help you.

I still have a Laserjet 4 (my first printer), I got it as a
present, never treated it kindly (printed VERY much), and it's
still working. It's more than 15 years old now, mind this, or
better, try this with a "consumer class" ink-pee "printer". :-)

The LJ4000d (duplex) does automatically rotate the paper for
every \newpage if setup this way (setup in the printer itself),
so gs + lpr should work there, too. It can understand PCL and PS.
Can you tell me how exactly you combine gs and lpr? Maybe I can
get rid of apsfiler (or CUPS, which I refuse to install due
to the many dependencies). Only requirement is that printing
should work from everywhere (lpr <file> or data piped to lpr).



> simply use text mode irc clients like epic or BitchX.

I liked the last one, but then switched to X-Chat 1 (with Gtk 1)
which was very comfortable.



> > Now for mail. Sylpheed has always been a good mail client,
> 
> fast is relative. for me it always been slow.

Since switch to Gtk 2, I recognize this.



> > to incorporate new mail (from /var/mail, I fetch separately
> > via fetchmail) disables its whole GUI for several seconds,
> 
> which is funny as every normal mail clients reads mailbox files directly.
> 
> alpine reads maildir dirs directly, and i use maildir format (through 
> procmail).

I don't have a mail server running on my home desktop, so I get
messages through POP3 using fetchmail. Why not through the mail
client? Because in the past, I was using different mail clients
at the same time for testing, and this was possible due to the
fact that all of them could access the same data structures for
the messages. Furthermore, fetchmail can get mail periodically,
and I don't need to have Thunderbird or the like running all the
time to check mail. A little xbiff informs me if something's new.



> > The image viewer xzgv, a fine thing, now has problems displaying
> > the file and directory icons on the left. Let's say the window
> 
> yes it get broken. no cure for this, i use xv now only.
> it's bad, xzgv was useful.

I've heared that xnview should be good, but didn't try this out yet.



> > bar is 	[|||---------]. While I keep holding down cursor up
> > or cuirsor left, this bar should move [||||||||----] until the
> > end of the file. But now, allthough I can hear the sound "move",
> > the bar AND the screen content doesn't update, so I could reach
> > the file's end without knowing it. And OSD doesn't work anymore,
> > but I don't care for this.
> 
> look at port options. i installed mplayer recently, works fine.

Is the Makefile.local mechanism still supported? Allthough I'm a
big fan of pkg_add -r, mplayer has been one of the few things I
always to compile (due to the options).


> i use it regularly

Me too.



> > Whenever I quit some programs (confirmed for: xmms, xzgv), the
> 
> mpg123 is your friend. best ever mp3 player.

I always thought madplay is better than mpg123. But I think it
doesn't contain rew / ff control via keyboard.



> > For a long time, StarOffice 5.2 was my tool of choice when I
> > thought I needed something except LaTeX. It didn't matter
> > that it brought its own desktop. For some time afterwards,
> > versions 1.x of OpenOffice could be installed via pkg_add,
> > including the german version. Since 2.x and now with 3.x,
> > it seems that compiling it is required. I don't have an
> > office package installed at the moment, I think I should
> > look if AbiWord can be installed as a german version...
> > (I prefer my system to be english-only, with this particular
> > piece of software as the only exception.)
> 
> use LyX.

Hm, I prefer to "code" LaTeX myself, but I found LyX to be a
good tool to suggest to students who wanted to write a thesis
that doesn't look like a piece of shit. :-)

The reason for an "Office" like program is the ability to read
ODF files. (What I like about ODF and OpenOffice's previous
file formats: You didn't need the creator program to read the
files - they could be unzipped and their content then was XML
and image files, readable / viewable with tools of choice.)




> > Then, the Midnight Commander has been "improved". The command
> > line now includes the full path, and for longer paths, column
> 
> ports/misc/mc-light

Will try this, sounds promising. I tried to change the code in MC
to NOT show the path in the prompt line, but didn't find it. The
stange "subshell pty" error is new, too. Never had this before.



> i don't mean old FreeBSD version, but old programs.
> 
> dig out older ports tree and extract needed ports :)

If still available? I'm usually using the /etc/sup control files
along with "make update" - the old fashioned way. I think I'll try
this out. According to the still readable parts of my 5.x hard
disk, I will check out which version of XFree86 I used and then
give it a try.



> which is exactly opposite to unix philosophy, having small program doing 
> little things but doing it well, and a method to automatically use many 
> different programs to get your job done.
> 
> i really prefer unix philosophy.

Another part of this philosophy is that you can combine these tools,
such as by the means of piping of temporary files, so in a "chain"
of processing, if something goes wrong, you can inspect every piece
in between.



> for those who like windoze way of computing, windoze is the best.
> 
> it's really worth spending these few $ on windoze that case.

Here in Germany, it's more convenient NOT to pay, but still to use.
And "Why should I pay you to work on my computer?" :-)



> for "modern" programs there are no computer on which they work fast.

Software development is the reason for hardware development is the
reason for software development... :-)



> Actually there are in a world one PROPERLY coded system with GUI, and 
> much more.
> 
> It's called AmigaOS.

Oh my poor Amiga collection (A500, A600, A1200) cries for reviving! :-)
The Amiga was the first usable PC bringing good graphics and stereo
audio out of 12V low tension. :-)

I read about the AROS project, looks interesting...



> As you see - people WANTED crap, that's why Amiga 
> doesn't really exist anymore for over 10 years.

People want crap, they get crap. It's the same story in hardware. Well,
you can actually pay lots of money for a brand name, but you get the
same short-living stuff as you could get for a discount price.



> > Germany: you're voting for the party or the candidate that
> > seems to be the smaller evil, allthough everyone knows that
> 
> there are no smaller evils, all are the same. at least in Poland.
> I don't think germany is different.

Well yes, it's always "worst choice", you notice this right after
the election.



> Actually all these voting is just to make most people thing that they have
> any effect of what will go on and how. they have no effects.

"Democracy simulation". That's why less and less people go voting.

Our major here in Magdeburg has been elected by 2/3 of the voters,
which are 1/3 of the residents of Magdeburg, so it is 2/9, and he's
talking about a "majority"... :-)



> Those who really rules your/mine country are (with few exceptions) not 
> those who are elected ;)

That's correct.




-- 
Polytropon
>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...



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