Skip site navigation (1)Skip section navigation (2)
Date:      Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:49:24 -0800
From:      Sam Leffler <sam@freebsd.org>
To:        obrien@freebsd.org
Cc:        svn-src-head@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, src-committers@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: svn commit: r187132 - head/usr.bin/make
Message-ID:  <49833DA4.3080407@freebsd.org>
In-Reply-To: <20090130173956.GA9119@dragon.NUXI.org>
References:  <200901130653.n0D6rrNX092719@svn.freebsd.org> <20090130015518.GA20404@hades.panopticon> <20090130.085130.-4349483.imp@bsdimp.com> <20090130173956.GA9119@dragon.NUXI.org>

next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
David O'Brien wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 08:51:30AM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote:
>   
>> In message: <20090130015518.GA20404@hades.panopticon>
>>             Dmitry Marakasov <amdmi3@amdmi3.ru> writes:
>> : * David E. O'Brien (obrien@FreeBSD.org) wrote:
>> : I think this should be backed out. Those verbose messages:
>> : - Are completely unexpected, this violates POLA.
>> : - Do break recognizeable make output people are used to
>> : - Really uglify make output for some custom makefiles (for example,
>> :   generated by cmake:
>>     
> ..
>   
>> : There's golden unix way rule: silence is golden. So please back this
>> : out, as this will really annoy many people.
>>
>> This makes at least two requests...  I hate them too.  really really
>> really hate them.  -Q is default in all my trees.
>>
>> The real problem is that it exposes way too many internal target names
>> that are totally baffling, even to me who has a lot of build
>> experience.  Also, it isn't clear how to use them.
>>
>> O'Brien says they were disabled in 1994 for no good reason without
>> discussion, so he's turning them back on, without discussion.  The
>> project is a very different place than it was then, and doing this
>> sort of thing is anti-social.
>>     
>
> s/1994/14-Nov-1998/
>
> 100,000 of things change within FreeBSD without discission that
> displeases some set of folks.  That's nothing new, but I'm restoring
> compatibility and functionailty, not removing it.
>
> I found src/Makefile.inc1 r134903 / rev 1.444 very noisy, but lived with
> it.  I don't care that -s now implies -Q, except that it still leaves so
> much "noise" like r134903 / rev 1.444 and other output.
> [Why the log message is about 'Unanimous Consent' and not verbosity?]
>
> I wonder what % build speed improvement quieting that behind 'make -s'
> would give?
>
>   

The point of his message is this is a community-based project and as 
such consensus is important.  I have seen zero support for your change, 
only complaints.  Change is change; you can't hide behind a claim you're 
restoring 10-year old behaviour.

    Sam





Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?49833DA4.3080407>