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Date:      Wed, 22 Nov 2017 18:53:24 -0800
From:      "Chris H" <bsd-lists@BSDforge.com>
To:        "Benno Rice" <benno@FreeBSD.org>
Cc:        <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>, <freebsd-arch@freebsd.org>, <sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu>
Subject:   Re: The future of fortune(6)
Message-ID:  <5f4a62166aeb423a406a902bdc7078bc@udns.ultimatedns.net>
In-Reply-To: <64AB4D76-B239-4E49-8D30-CF6D5D5D88A4@FreeBSD.org>

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On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 11:22:41 -0800 "Benno Rice" <benno@FreeBSD=2Eorg> said

> > On Nov 22, 2017, at 09:35, Steve Kargl <sgk@troutmask=2Eapl=2Ewashington=2Eed=
u>
> > wrote:
> >=20
> > On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 08:29:46AM -0800, Benno Rice wrote:
> >>=20
> >> With the removal of the fortune datfiles I think it=E2=80=99s time to
> >> have a discussion about fortune(6)=2E
> >=20
> > There should have been a discussion before the removal, but
> > your method prevented an inevitable bikeshed=2E
>=20
> You=E2=80=99re correct in that my intent was to avoid pointless discussio=
n=2E We=E2=80=99ve
> got bigger and more fun things to work on than coming up with an editoria=
l
> policy as to what is or isn=E2=80=99t appropriate in the fortune datfiles=
=2E
>=20
> >> fortune now defaults to using a fortune file that no longer exists:
> >=20
> > When functionality is removed from src, a port is usually created=2E
> > The datfiles should be available from ports/games/bsd-fortune=2E
>=20
> Feel free to create it=2E If someone else wants to take editorial
> responsibility for those files I=E2=80=99m all for it=2E FreeBSD should not=
 be taking
> responsibility for them and I don=E2=80=99t wish to take that responsibil=
ity
> either=2E
>=20
> >> $ fortune
> >> No fortunes found in
> > /usr/share/games/fortune:/usr/local/share/games/fortune=2E
> >>=20
> >> fortune is still used in the default =2Elogin/=2Eprofile to show entries
> >> from the still existing freebsd-tips:
> >>=20
> >> $ grep fortune /usr/share/skel/*
> >> /usr/share/skel/dot=2Elogin:if ( -x /usr/bin/fortune ) /usr/bin/fortune
> > freebsd-tips
> >> /usr/share/skel/dot=2Eprofile:if [ -x /usr/bin/fortune ] ; then
> > /usr/bin/fortune freebsd-tips ; fi
> >> $ fortune freebsd-tips
> >> If you need a reminder to leave your terminal, type "leave +hhmm" wher=
e
> >> "hhmm" represents in how many hours and minutes you need to leave=2E
> >> =09=09-- Dru <genesis@istar=2Eca>
> >>=20
> >> fortune also still has flags for showing offensive entries and the lik=
e=2E
> >>=20
> >=20
> > What is offensive to one person may not offend another person=2E  What
> > if someone objects to quotes by Dru (sorry Dru looks like you got=20
> > picked at random above)=2E  The above looks like an attack on people
> > with memory loss issues (age discrimination?)=2E  Will you remove Dru's
> > quotes?
>=20
> Nice try=2E The freebsd-tips collection has some useful stuff which is why =
I
> put forward the idea of keeping it=2E Comments like this are exactly why I =
got
> rid of everything else=2E
>=20
> >> I would like people=E2=80=99s opinion on which of the following two pa=
ths we
> >> should take:
> >>=20
> >> 1) Complete removal of fortune and freebsd-tips, remove its usage from
> >> the default =2Elogin/=2Eprofile files=2E
> >=20
> > Create ports/games/bsd-fortune=2E
>=20
> Be my guest=2E
>=20
> >> 2) Reworking fortune(6) to remove the offensive fortune flag and
> >> make freebsd-tips the default, possibly by symlinking it as
> >> /usr/share/games/fortune/fortunes=2E
> >=20
> > 3) Restore the datfiles=2E  Add a WITHOUT_FORTUNE knob and set it
> >   as the default=2E  This allows an individual to tailor her system
> >   to meet her needs without having others force a politically=20
> >   correct revisionist history on them=2E
>=20
> Oh please=2E If you want the datfiles they=E2=80=99re there in history=2E If =
you want
> to be the one distributing them, go ahead=2E I=E2=80=99m fairly sure that t=
he
> availability of quotes regarding, or by, Hitler or anyone else has been
> diminished by a rounding error or less by us no longer distributing the
> datfiles=2E FreeBSD is an operating system, not an encyclopedia=2E
>=20
> > This will be my one and only post in this bikeshed=2E  Given the=20
> > sudden removal of the datfiles without discussion=2E  This appears
> > to be a perfunctory discussion prior to you pursuing your own
> > choice=2E
>=20
> Think of me whatever you want, I=E2=80=99m not fussed=2E I=E2=80=99m asking=
 with 100%
> honest intentions what the community wants to do with this tool=2E If the
> consensus is for retaining fortune for use with the freebsd-tips datfile =
then
> I=E2=80=99m absolutely cool with that=2E
>=20
> I made a unilateral decision to remove a potential source of pointless
> distraction=2E I could=E2=80=99ve unilaterally removed fortune entirely at =
that point
> but I didn=E2=80=99t as the freebsd-tips aspect appears to have actual ut=
ility and
> is something we can easily manage=2E The other files weren=E2=80=99t=2E
If this is about removing things from FreeBSD that don't offer/provide "uti=
lity"=2E
Than you *should* have removed /usr/games entirely=2E Let's *actually* be
"completely honest" about all this=2E

I think I'm done here=2E Sorry=2E :(

> If they=E2=80=99re
> important to you, please feel free to check out either r325781 (if you wa=
nt
> the files) or r325095 (if you want the files with the Hitler quotes) and
> maintain them yourself=2E
>=20
> Cheers,
> =09Benno=2E

--Chris





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