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Date:      Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:50:39 GMT
From:      Cliff Sarginson <cliff@raggedclown.net>
To:        "Jeremiah Gowdy" <jgowdy@home.com>, "Alexei Betin" <betin@belcom.ru>, <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   Re: the way freebsd to be patched is sick
Message-ID:  <E14NzWp-000O0H-00@post.mail.nl.demon.net>

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> > Hello,
> >
> > >   I'm sorry you don't like the way that the Open
> > > Source community does things.  I would suggest that
> > > if you don't care to get source patches that you pay
> > > the $1000 per year per server to BSDi to put your
> > > servers under a FreeBSD service contract.  I'm quite
> > > sure that if you do this that BSDi will be more than
> > > happy to supply you with all the binary patches that
> > > you want.
> >
> > no point. there is at least enother one well known open
> > source os that provides binary patches.

And from whom would you like these binary patches ?
The same people who have spent millions of hours developing
a system that is then given to you, for nothing ?
Nobody here owes you anything. Contrariwise, here you will get
given a lot, a lot of help support, information, occasional insults,
and that costs you zip !
You want a binary patch utility ? Write one and contribute it to the
project. 
This is about co-operation and good will. Not obligation and demands.

Every time someone gives me advice here I am grateful.
And makes me happy to give advice back when I can.
That is how it works.

I suggest you look at in that spirit.
Compiling a kernel will not kill you.
You can always read a book while it is going on :)

Cliff
> >
> 
> What's the point of having an OpenSource operating system that has binary
> patches ?  That kinda defeats the whole OpenSource concept.  If I were to
> change any of the source code in my kernel, or the rest of the operating
> system, that would break the patches.  If you want binary patches, why do
> you want OpenSource ?
> 
> > whoes that crazy idea to patch os by recompiling it?
> 
> Welcome to Open Source.
> 
> > for many reasons I don't want to have compiler and source tree installed
> on my servers.
> 
> Such as ?
> 
> You don't want a compiler in your Open Source operating system ?  I think
> you're a little lost.
> 
> > I don't want to wait while it's being recompiled for several hours just
> for purpose of new `bind` to be installed.
> 
> Several hours ?  You're kidding right ?  First, my make worlds don't take
> "several hours", they take two hours tops on my slowest servers.  If it
> takes several hours, perhaps you don't have recent hardware.  If that's the
> case, how can you blame the OS for your hardware ?  Besides, you shouldn't
> have to recompile the entire OS just because of bind.  You can recompile
> bind from ports I believe, or you can just cvsup your source tree, go into
> /usr/src/contrib/bind and just recompile the bind code.
> 
> > I don't want to hold my breath seing how freshly compiled os restarts on a
> production system...
> 
> (a) Welcome to Open Source
> (b) I've never had any problems with recompiling the OS, if make world is
> successful.  How the hell do you think the "binary" version of the OS you
> installed via ftp or cdrom was created ?  By some magic supercompiler that
> generates better code ?  The FreeBSD team compiles the OS the same way you
> do, and they create the "binaries" you desire so badly.  How much easier can
> it be ?  "make world"  I think you need to either understand the Open Source
> OS concept a little better, or move to a different style of OS.  Honestly,
> from your statements I am assuming you simply aren't comfortable with
> compiling your kernel, OS, etc.  That being the case, the only reason I can
> see that you would demand an Open Source operating system (that doesn't
> include a compiler) is the price.  Are you simply using FreeBSD for the Free
> part ?  If so, that's fine, but you have to accept that if you're going to
> use a system like FreeBSD or even Linux, there's something of a learning
> curve.  You have to put a little work into the OS in order to experience the
> benefits.  If you don't like that, find yourself a free OS that's not open
> source and maybe you'll be a little happier.  If you don't like FreeBSD's
> cvsup style patches, use BSDi, Solaris, or Windows 2000 Advanced Server.
> They seem to be a little more your style (win2k=no compiler, all have binary
> patches, you don't have to compile your OS for "hours", and you don't have
> to hold your breath when you freshly compile your OS).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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