Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 22:24:32 +0000 From: "Frank Pawlak" <fpawlak@execpc.com> To: malte@webmore.com, Frank Pawlak <fpawlak@execpc.com> Cc: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis <jonny@jonny.eng.br>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Funny, but true... Message-ID: <980616222432.ZM10808@darkstar.connect.com> In-Reply-To: Malte Lance <malte@webmore.com> "Re: Funny, but true..." (Jun 16, 9:57am) References: <XFMail.980616095721.malte@webmore.com>
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Malte, You are right, it is a paradox, or as some of us say; it puts you between a rock and a hard spot. Because of my penchant to be professorial, I think that on my first reading I missed your point. I didn't find anything offensive in your previous mail, so no apologgies are necessary. Frank On Jun 16, 9:57am, Malte Lance wrote: > Subject: Re: Funny, but true... > Frank, > > you are right !!! > I were looking through abstract philosophical eyes on a feature of real life. > If my previous mail was offending to you, then please take my apologize. > > Malte. > > On 16-Jun-98 Frank Pawlak wrote: > > Paradox? Not so sure that it is. They case you make is true. No matter how > > the questions are answered, if you are an undesirable alien you are either > > not > > admitted or kicked out. That is how things should be. In effect we already > > have more than our quota of naive terrorists. prostitutes, and other assorted > > criminals without importing any more. The primary function of a central > > government is to protect its' citizens from those individuals or groups that > > wish us harm. > > > > The end result is that if you are a citizen of a foreign country, and don't > > belong to any of those classes of people, you are entirely welcome to enter, > > visit, and enjoy the USA. If you are a person of such stature that has a > > problem truthfully answering those questions, I'm not so sure that I'd want > > you > > here either. Be it paradoxical or not, mission acomplished. > > > > Whether or not the State Department is paranoid or not, personally I'd prefer > > that they were a little paranoid. As I stated, there are citizens of other > > countries, rightly or wrongly, that don't hold Americans or the USA in high > > esteem. We really don't need outsiders doing World Trade Center bombings or > > opening up with an AK47 and hosing the shit out of a bunch innocent civilians > > just to get their rocks off. > > > > Frank > > > > On Jun 15, 8:41am, malte@webmore.com wrote: > >> Subject: Re: Funny, but true... > >> The whole thing has somewhat of a classical paradoxon. > >> - Assume you are a person that wants to enter US-territory and > >> belongs into the class of people that are covered by the > >> questions (terrorist, prostitute, criminal, ... whatever). > >> > >> 1. If you tell the truth when asked this questions, you will be > >> kicked off and are not allowed to enter US-territory. > >> So you are forced to lie. > >> 2. If you lie on the questions, you will be kicked off, when they > >> find out you did not tell the truth; so you are forced to tell > >> the truth. > >> 3. Goto 1. > >> > >> Malte. > >> > >> On 15-Jun-98 Frank Pawlak wrote: > >> > On Jun 13, 4:59pm, Joao Carlos Mendes Luis wrote: > >> >> Subject: Funny, but true... > >> >> How to get an American Visa ? > >> >> > >> >> I noted that american people coming to Brasil do not understand > >> >> why they must get a visa. The reason is that the brasilian > >> >> foreign politics is to give foreigners the same treatment brasilians > >> >> receive in their country. Well, I want to take my vacations at > >> >> Disneyland (who said I'm too old for that ? :) ), and the United > >> >> States require a visa for me (Portuguese residing in Brazil) to enter > >> >> its territory. > >> >> > >> >> The most laughable thing is the form I was required to fill. > >> >> It is composed of some reasonable questions: Name, Address, > >> >> Documentation, etc., but also has these question (in portuguese, > >> >> the translation is mine): > >> >> > >> >> - Have you ever traded drugs or practiced prostitution ? > >> >> - Have ever tried to get into USA or help others to get into USA > >> >> using a false visa, or any other kind of fraud or false > >> >> information ? > >> >> - Do you intend to get into USA to practice export control violations, > >> >> subversive or terrorist activities, or with any ilegal objective ? > >> >> - Have you ever ordered, incited, helped or in any way practiced > >> >> persecution of any person because of his race, religion, nationality, > >> >> or politic beliefs, under the direct or indirect command of the > >> >> Nazi German Government or any Government allied with it ? > >> >> - Have you ever participated in a genocide ? > >> >> - Are you a member or representative of a terrorist organization ? > >> >> > >> >> Do these guys really expect some real terrorist or similar to > >> >> answer yes to any of these questions ??? > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > Jonny, > >> > > >> > I am not an official of the US Government, but I would suspect that the > >> > answers > >> > to these questions would enhance the ability to prosecute those that enter > >> > the > >> > USA and commit various crimes. It would allow prosecution and > >> > deportations > >> > based on entery under false pretense. That document you have to fill out > > is > >> > probable done under oath and is thus a sworn deposition. > >> > > >> > Basically it means that your leagal rights while here can depend on how > >> > truthful the answers to those questions are. > >> > > >> > I am aware that Americans, citizens of the USA, are often not well liked > >> > by > >> > citizens of other countries, but, we are not all fools either. So if you > >> > think > >> > about the implications of answering those questions falsely, you may get a > >> > clearer picture of why they are there. > >> > > >> > Frank > >> > > >> > Jonny > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Joao Carlos Mendes Luis M.Sc. Student > >> >> jonny@jonny.eng.br Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro > >> >> > >> >> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >> >> with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > >> >>-- End of excerpt from Joao Carlos Mendes Luis > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >> > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > >> > >> ---------------------------------- > >> E-Mail: malte@webmore.com > >> Date: 15-Jun-98 > >> Time: 08:23:17 > >> ---------------------------------- > >>-- End of excerpt from malte@webmore.com > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > > > > ---------------------------------- > E-Mail: Malte Lance <malte@webmore.com> > Date: 16-Jun-98 > Time: 09:44:56 > ---------------------------------- >-- End of excerpt from Malte Lance To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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