Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:24:20 -0700 From: "Kevin Oberman" <oberman@es.net> To: Marcel Moolenaar <xcllnt@mac.com> Cc: John-Mark Gurney <gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu>, current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New-bus unit wiring via hints.. Message-ID: <20071027212420.EC7F94500E@ptavv.es.net> In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 27 Oct 2007 13:57:25 PDT." <B695B37F-CEFD-482F-A621-2A6784E66C6A@mac.com>
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--==_Exmh_1193520260_50909P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline > From: Marcel Moolenaar <xcllnt@mac.com> > Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 13:57:25 -0700 > > > On Oct 27, 2007, at 12:40 PM, Kevin Oberman wrote: > > >> I'm not mandating anything. I'm merely pointing out how > >> reality has changed and that it's important to adapt, > >> adopt and improve... > > > > "Reality has changed"? Yes, it has, at least a bit, but not to the > > point where we want to confuse serial ports. > > Are you saying that "we" should accept reality's change > only for as far as it doesn't confuse "us" ??? Just in case I don't understand the issue, feel free to correct me, but it sounds like you are saying that there will not be a clear link between the serial port (sio) number and the port marked '1' on most systems. If I am wrong about this, please tell me and I climb back under my rock. If there is not a good reason or benefit and it the change is accommodated in some realistic manner without serious penalty. Confusing "us" is far less significant than confusing lots of users. > > If I update my BIOS, the port marked '1' on the back of my system > > should > > not abruptly change from sio0 to sio1. > > Agreed. > > > In my case, I am only talking to a data logger and not actually > > controlling something, but I should not have to worry about having > > a port > > name change or finding that _UID1 was no longer the same device if I > > move to a new mother board. > > That's unrealistic. If you change the underlying hardware > configuration you cannot expect that it doesn't have some > sort of effect on the system. Wiring is about making that > effect as small as possible, not about having FreeBSD do > its own thing with disregard of the hardware. If I really change the configuration, then I should expect changes in operation. But upgrading to a new system or motherboard where the port marked '1' is suddenly not sio0 is not a configuration change, in my view. The new system has, to the typical user's eyes, the same configuration. This gets even worse in some cases. For example, many newer mobos have a single serial connector on the back and another available only as a header connector on the board. (I have a lot of such systems scattered all over the country.) I would be extremely upset if the '1' port, configured as the console was to become sio1 and I could not access the system from the terminal server. I suspect I could recover from this remotely as long as I can get to the BIOS setup screen, but I'd be really annoyed if I had to fly across the country to fix this. (OK. I probably could pay for remote hands to take care of it.) > > (Yes, I had been working with computers for several years > > before then and I suspect many of the others in this discussion had > > been, too.) Please don't break it! Talk about POLA! > > I'm very much insensitive to people arguing with nothing > more than how things used to be in the distant past. > It only means they have been standing still for as long > as that and have become inflexible and intolerant. > Having those people use POLA is a joke because it's really > their own POLA that's at stake and given that it's coming > from someone who isn't living in the present, really means > very very little looking forward. > > I've argued that hints isn't the right tool to achieve > wiring. Keep the discussion on topic. Yes, it is possible that I am off-target in my understanding of this. If so, I apologize. I am not sure hints is the right place for this, but I do think that any replacement must not break basic assumptions people make about systems. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: oberman@es.net Phone: +1 510 486-8634 Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4 EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751 --==_Exmh_1193520260_50909P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (FreeBSD) Comment: Exmh version 2.5 06/03/2002 iD8DBQFHI6yEkn3rs5h7N1ERApafAKCIITD1UkGVLnYKBfgjDkAYrZdEzgCgpk62 RoAGyoXjIRry0WcAe+qhvfs= =bOgS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==_Exmh_1193520260_50909P--
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