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Date:      Thu, 4 May 2006 18:02:43 +0300 (EEST)
From:      Achilleus Mantzios <achill@matrix.gatewaynet.com>
To:        Fernan Aguero <fernan@iib.unsam.edu.ar>
Cc:        freebsd-java@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: java without X11?
Message-ID:  <Pine.LNX.4.44.0605041757210.3537-100000@matrix.gatewaynet.com>
In-Reply-To: <20060504133141.GD94022@iib.unsam.edu.ar>

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O Fernan Aguero Ýãñáøå óôéò May 4, 2006 :

> +----[ Achilleus Mantzios <achill@matrix.gatewaynet.com> (04.May.2006 10:12):
> |
> 
> [snipped]
> 
> | > | I know that a lot of java apps depend on GUI functionality
> | > | provided by the language, but is this java+X11 a thing that
> | > | cannot be separated? (i.e.  X11 is rooted too deep into
> | > | java) or maybe it could be separated and we could have an
> | > | optional WITHOUT_X11 in the various jdk ports?
> | > 
> | > Now replying to myself. After a couple of google searches,
> | > it seems like yes, X11 (at least before jdk15) was too tied
> | > to java. 
> | 
> | My previous message regraded jdk 1.4.2, i havent checked with jdk 1.5.
> | (sorry)
> 
> It's OK.
> 
> | > The following, however, suggests that jdk15 can be run in
> | > headless boxes without X11, even when there is java code
> | > that generates and/or works with graphics
> | > http://www.eteks.com/pja/en/forum/viewSubject.jsp?subjectId=481#612
> | > 
> | 
> | They (eteks) produce a product just for that use.
> | I had checked it out back in 1.3 days.
> | The problem then was not X11 installation itself but the fact that 
> | a X11 server was needed in order to use AWT
> | (java wanted to connect to an X DISPLAY).
> | At the time, the workaround for headless servers was to use
> | Xvfb (virtual frame buffer).
> 
> Yes, this is what I understood from reading this and other
> pages.
> 
> | But today (1.4.2, 1.5) we dont have to bother with such issues
> | any more.
> | I'd recommend installing xorg-libraries and then use the 
> | -Djava.awt.headless=true switch.
> 
> >From the limited understanding I got in the last half-hour
> from Google :) this might be true for 1.4.2 but not for 1.5
> 
> Quoting from the URL above:
> "... servlets using only PJA classes and servlets relying on
> standard images classes of the JDK work without setting any
> System property" and just next it adds "from J2SE 5.0, you
> don't even have to set java.awt.headless property to ensure
> such servlets work".
> 
> And I'm not even planning on generating graphics ... 
> 
> | Keeping X11-libraries updated adds some admin cost, but 
> | i dont think its a big issue.
> 
> Of course, I agree it's not a big issue, it's just that
> being completely naïve (not knowing anything on the subject)
> I just found it natural that java would not need X11.
> 
> | > I'm not a java expert at all, just a consumer of java tools,
> | > so I can't really think of helping with a non-X11 jdk15 ... but
> | > maybe I can push this on the freebsd-java agenda :) ?
> 
> [signatures snipped]
> 
> | 
> | -- 
> | -Achilleus
> |
> +----]
> 
> OK, so what if I just go ahead and remove all X11 stuff from
> this box? Apart from testing java code from my specific
> application, are there any java tests that I can run to
> ensure that everything would run smoothly? I mean, I can
> just keep the X11 libraries, it's no big deal as I said
> above, I'm proposing this as a test to see if a headless
> FreeBSD jdk15 port is a viable option.

As a simple test would convince you,
just removing a dependent .so file, would prevent you 
from running *any* java app.

> 
> I know Perl includes a comprehensive testbed that you can
> run to check a myriad of things ... but I'm not that
> familiar with Java ...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Fernan
> 

-- 
-Achilleus




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