Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2020 17:26:20 -0500 From: Paul Mather <paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> To: Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org> Cc: freebsd-arm <freebsd-arm@freebsd.org>, bob prohaska <fbsd@www.zefox.net>, =?utf-8?Q?Klaus_K=C3=BCchemann?= <maciphone2@googlemail.com> Subject: Re: Showstoppers for RPI3 Message-ID: <F36A81FB-19BA-49EB-8864-F64BF50C2D8C@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> In-Reply-To: <49fce4489ba4aeb7a5638a6c1bbfb5e6a0b84312.camel@freebsd.org> References: <20200225175446.GA77976@www.zefox.net> <11951E01-EC13-4FBB-938A-AEB5700C4281@yahoo.com> <CACNAnaEiv5NZZz%2BxfETkhSZ-zbjZ3Ya6z7pyteheP4zj3EK1Gg@mail.gmail.com> <20200226052045.GA79939@www.zefox.net> <E866B6BE-7948-4412-82EF-999A2F8C0DF9@googlemail.com> <04e8e290e5d7bb810f76ece4ff33d6e1006e63cd.camel@freebsd.org> <9AF20341-AFCC-46BE-A2F2-96CF01655983@gromit.dlib.vt.edu> <49fce4489ba4aeb7a5638a6c1bbfb5e6a0b84312.camel@freebsd.org>
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On Feb 26, 2020, at 4:21 PM, Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org> wrote: > On Wed, 2020-02-26 at 15:41 -0500, Paul Mather wrote: >> On Feb 26, 2020, at 10:33 AM, Ian Lepore <ian@freebsd.org> wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 2020-02-26 at 06:32 +0100, Klaus Küchemann via freebsd-arm >>> wrote: >>>> But that´s the absolute joke of the century :-) that these issues >>>> last so long here on the mailing list >>> >>> The current freebsd-arm devs keep pointing out that nobody is >>> especially interested in maintaining or working on rpi* stuff at >>> all. >>> Why in the world would you be surprised that nobody is working on >>> it? >>> >>> If you want to run freebsd on arm hardware, try using hardware that >>> people are actually working to support. If you must use crappy rpi >>> hardware, either run linux on it, or consider paying someone to do >>> the >>> freebsd support you need. Complaining that nobody will work for >>> free >>> on hardware they hate working on is just... >>> complaining. Pointlessly. >> >> >> All fair enough. I'm probably in the same boat as Bob Prohaska >> inasmuch as I have a couple of Raspberry Pi devices of varying >> vintages hanging around. I'm a longtime FreeBSD user, so, naturally, >> I prefer to run FreeBSD on these devices, and have done so for a >> while (with varying degrees of success/stability). >> >> It sounds from the above I shouldn't bother, for pain and misery will >> attend me all my days as a result. :-) >> >> If Raspberry Pi is a crappy platform and a bad choice to use, >> FreeBSD-wise, what is the suggested alternative in the same low- >> power/low-price (and Raspberry Pi-like spec) arena? Is it the Pine64 >> stuff like the PINE A64, ROCK64, and ROCKPro64?? >> >> I'm willing to buy something other than Raspberry Pi (I have a >> BeagleBone Black, for example), but I don't want to buy something >> that is derided and despised by FreeBSD developers and avoided by >> them like the plague. I am not an ARM/SoC or electronics expert, so >> I feel unqualified to know what is a "crappy ARM platform." >> >> Also, if the true situation with Raspberry Pi is that it is unlikely >> to see development within FreeBSD, it would be more honest to >> deprecate the platform officially on the FreeBSD site. I'd even go >> so far as to suggest not to distribute official images for it, as >> that carries with it a hint of blessing and support. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Paul. > > It really is pretty specific to the rpi family, for a pair of reasons: > > - The hardware is just crappy, buggy, limited, hard to work with. > > - Documentation needed to write device drivers is not openly > available, and getting an NDA in place with broadcom never seems to > happen despite people over the years saying they would work to make it > happen. I don't disagree with any of this. I appreciate your honesty in laying out the reasons why so many FreeBSD developers are dissuaded from working on RPi and the likelihood of this changing. > For inexpensive low-power boards... For the 32-bit world, the > Allwinnner hardware is probably best supported, with imx6 a close > second. For 64-bit I'd say it's the rockpro stuff. Thank you. This is very helpful and much appreciated! Cheers, Paul.
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